Maura Kelly wrote an interesting article (and subsequent apology) over at Marie Claire on overweight couples displaying affection on television.
Kelly comments on the show Mike & Molly, which features characters who meet at an ‘overeater anonymous group,’ and follows their blossoming romance (Kelly is quick to point out that the couple is not simply overweight, but obese. I have no idea why she thinks this is relevant, but apparently it is). Kelly reports on an CNN article about how some viewers find the displays of affection between the two lead characters ‘uncomfortable’ because of their weight.
Kelly suggests that the show promotes obesity:
“And while I think our country’s obsession with physical perfection is unhealthy, I also think it’s at least equally crazy, albeit in the other direction, to be implicitly promoting obesity! Yes, anorexia is sick, but at least some slim models are simply naturally skinny. No one who is as fat as Mike and Molly can be healthy.”
And I’d tell her she’s wrong. The show is about two people who are struggling with their weight, who meet at a support group to help them get their weight under control. How is that promoting obesity? The couple is actively trying to combat their weight – this is EXACTLY the message that should be promoted to overweight people. Simply existing as a fat person does not encourage others to be fat. I have no idea where she is pulling this idea from.
Then Kelly describes her feelings on the issue:
“So anyway, yes, I think I’d be grossed out if I had to watch two characters with rolls and rolls of fat kissing each other … because I’d be grossed out if I had to watch them doing anything. To be brutally honest, even in real life, I find it aesthetically displeasing to watch a very, very fat person simply walk across a room — just like I’d find it distressing if I saw a very drunk person stumbling across a bar or a heroine [sic] addict slumping in a chair.”
Kelly’s response repulses me. She is basically dehumanizing fat people in suggesting that they shouldn’t be expressing affection (or at least not where it is visible to others, which I would argue is the same damn thing). If you have a problem with people being overweight, then fine. That’s your issue, not theirs. People have a MULTITUDE of health problems which are self-induced (or at least not fully combatted by the sufferer), but that doesn’t mean they lose their human status and become some sort of disgusting monster that can’t possibly kiss – or heave forbid – have sex with another person.
I have never understood the hatred towards fat people. Being fat is a health issue. It is not good. People who are fat should try to be healthy. I get that. But there are so, so, so many other unhealthy lifestyles that people willingly contribute, and no one seems to pass the hate on to those folks.
Paris Hilton gets arrested for coke possession, and we shrug it off. Charlie Sheen gets arrested after a drunken bender, and he will remain one of the highest paid actors in TV. The Jersey Shore cast spend a significant amount of time in their sunshine cancer boxes, and we laugh it off because they’re orange, instead of being appalled that they are willingly doing everything in their power to develop skin cancer. We continue to buy their albums, watch their movies and TV shows. No one refers to them as disgusting for willingly destroying their bodies. In fact, we glamourize their lifestyles! … But we hate fat people. And I just don’t get it. I do not understand why this type of lifestyle perpetrates hatred, bullying, and disgust, and why we as a society deem that okay. As previously discussed, shaming people does not change minds. Shame leads to eating disorders, crash diets, failed exercise regimens, depression and even suicide. Shame will take you about as far as it takes to get frustrated and give up on yourself, and will prevent some from ever trying again.
Kelly does go on to apologise. Sort of. She tries to justify herself by pointing out that the people are just overweight, not obese. Because obese people obviously aren’t actually people anymore, and therefore it is fine to talk about how repulsive it is for them to have sex. She also rambles on about how anorexics make her uncomfortable as well, but they are unhappy with their lives, so they deserve sympathy. Therefore one could surmise the real issue at hand is that obese people cannot appear to be happy in the public sphere. Read? Kelly’s foot is so far down her throat that she’s scrambling for some sort of logic to backup her stupid arguments. And she’s failing to find that logic.
Some people are fat. And you know what? Some are even really fat. They should be encouraged to find a means of getting healthy, but they should not be expected to hide from the public until they meet an acceptable aesthetic level of weight. They should not be discouraged from being in love, and openly displaying their love. And above all, they should not be subjected to anyone’s disgust or hatred. I have so much difficulty understand why people think projecting hatred onto others is acceptable in any situation, let alone because you disapprove of their unhealthy lifestyle.
You can watch an interview with the creator of the show here.
Ok. First off, a lot of people, especially feminists, like to rag on the super-skeletal models and how unhealthy they are. I very, very frequently hear women (again, especially feminists) proclaim how ugly those women without any curves are, and how destructive it is that such a body type is shown all over magazines and tv. And honestly, this situation isn’t all that different, but because it victimizes the overweight, suddenly it’s abhorrent to find them unattractive. Yes, I realize no one says they’re repulsed when anorexics kiss and I do agree that Kelly needs to shut it and get over herself. However, I do want to point out the tint bit of hypocrisy here. Anorexics are ok to call ugly, and overweight people aren’t. That’s cool I guess.
.
I don’t care what people do with each other. I don’t give a crap if I see overweight people kissing/cuddling/whatever. But I also don’t call super skinny people ugly and unwomanlike either. And I’m sorry, but the overweight body is not as aesthetically pleasing as a healthy, fit one. A skeletal body is not as aesthetically pleasing as a healthy one either. That’s just the way it is.
*tiny, not tint.
Turns out Maura Kelly has a long history of severe anorexia and bulimia. I think much of the venom she spewed out is based in self hatred. I pity her as much as I dislike her.
Aha! That explains a lot.
“Simply existing as a fat person does not encourage others to be fat. I have no idea where she is pulling this idea from.”
Yet people who say having thin* people in TV shows, movies and runways are encouraging the viewers to be thin just by the model or actor existing, so that’s where I’m sure that line of thinking comes from.
*thin as in healthy, not skeletal, skinny and scary.
Dude, I just ate a really awesome chunk of brie on some crackers. I like to pretend that I am pasting that brie to my stomach, that way I’ll be sure to feel like shit the rest of the night.
I see both arguments and acknowledge that both have valid points to a certain extent.
On the one hand, I probably haven’t had more than 1500 calories today and I walked at least two miles commuting. On the other hand, I totally destroyed that wedge of brie in 5 days and I live with a bunch of emaciated french people who make me feel gigantic.
Fat or not fat? This argument is to be continued…
I’ve been obese for twenty years now. I finally lately came to terms with the fact that I find obese people (including myself) absolutely repulsive. I can’t stand people breathing hard walking up a few stairs or sweating excessively because of how fat they are. If I had to watch myself eat, I would probably lose 100 pounds in no time because watching fat people eat makes me want to throw up. But before you start ripping me to shreds which I am sure you will do and which I probably deserve, think of how it feels to hate yourself that much. And think of how you eat when eating is your way of making yourself feel better from that feeling. And how hard it is to lose weight when you’re in that cycle.
@pufinstuf, I think it takes a lot of awareness to have that understanding of yourself. It definitely sounds less than fun. Maybe find a hobby that makes you feel even better than eating does? Taekwondo always, without fail, makes me feel so much better and keeps me in shape. If you don’t exercise, finding the one activity that you absolutely love can be great, even if you have to ease into it.
The difference is that designers only hire girls that fit in their samples. If you want to model, you have to find a way to get down to that size. It’s rare to be that stick thin naturally. Hollywood actresses get railed in the tabloids if they get above a size 4.
I think it is high handed to feel that you somehow have the right to hate *anyone* because of their appearance.
What an asshole.
Puf – just live your life for you. You are the one that matters. Please start to think in terms of caring for your health – not what size you fit into Much like a car or a house, if you want your body to last a long time, you must take care of it.
Eat good food.
Enjoy the world around you.
Exercise to make yourself happy and feel good.
Simple things. Important things
And have chocolate with a wonderful glass of wine once in awhile. It’s good for the soul.
“I encourage people to be healthy, I don’t give a damn what your pant size is but it is horrifying to me at school when I see people walk down flat hallways panting for breath, when supposedly able bodied people wait 10 minutes for the handicap elevator instead of going up/down a few flights of stairs. I fully support loving your personality, but I can’t encourage people in sheer unhealthy obesity and go ahead and get mad, if you’re that overweight/undermuscled it’s not like you can catch me when I flee.”
I said that earlier this week, yesterday I saw an obviously anorexic girl walking down the same flat hallway, panting for breath in the same way and I felt the same horror, but I didn’t explain before why I feel such horror, it’s because I’m watching you kill yourself. Obese or anorexic I’m seeing you slowly die by your own hand. And go ahead and get mad, if you’re that thin your bones are brittle and your body has eaten your muscles, you won’t catch me when I flee.
I am sooooooo sick of the “So we’re allowed to rag on anorexic girls but no obese ones?” thing.
Yes I do think we have every right to rag on the fact that an appalling amount of models are NOT naturally that thin and have forced themselves to be as tiny as they are, the fact that their obvious, and sometimes deadly, medical condition is being glamorised and I would feel exactly the same if it was obese people. But the thing is it’s not like that at all.
The only reason I can see for so many people being ‘repulsed’ by overweight people is the fact that for so long we have been told, whether by words or through pictures, that it’s wrong to be overweight, we have been told that it’s unattractive.
Obviously there are some people who no matter what will always think that being overweight is unattractive but I sincerely believe that if there hadn’t been the shift in what we perceive as attractive that number would not be as big (haha) as it is now.
Go back a couple of hundred years and being bigger was a lot more attractive. It was a sign that you could afford to eat (so yeah all those movies that you see with tiny rich people and the fat jolly peasants is completely and utterly historically inaccurate).
Apparently now we want people who are thin enough to look like they can afford enough cocaine and redbull that they don’t have to eat.
let us look at history, ancient Greeks favored a woman with meat on her bones, as did many other cultures. Read the book-”Archaeology and fertility cult in the ancient Mediterranean …, Volume 1985 By Anthony Bonanno”
We are all so quick to pick out others insecurities and frailties, we lose focus of the “big” picture….
we have all kinds of people in the world- obeisity is in the DSM V as a diagnosed illness in the same degree as anorexia, addiction, etc.
Is the problem that Mike and Molly are the main characters? would it be an issue if they were playing second hand roles again? Why havRen’t we heard any comparison to the reality series “Biggest Loser” or ” Ruby”?
Whoa wait a minute what about mixed race couples or little people?
Me thinks that prejudice and stereotypes are applied to the message, and we as a society need to consider that in all aspects of life.
I really could care less about fatties or skeleton people. Funny story though, when I was young and working the night shift at a supermarket this grossly obese man came in. And I mean almost fat to death. This guy had worked up a sweat just walking from his car to my register. He was breathing like a bellows when be put down a jumbo bag of double-stuff oreos. His belly was so large he couldn’t take out his wallet and hold it before him and look into it, he had to hold it under his chin just to root out the cash. I felt guilty selling them to him.
I am a thin tiny boned girl that wears a size zero. I look thin but healthy for my size. I have natural C cup breasts. I hate hearing overweight people talk about how disgusting size zero is.. or that zero is not a size. I work hard and exercise to maintain a slim figure. I also only date men that are as in shape as me. That is what I find attractive.
It doesn’t matter if your fat or thin people will always comment.
I live on the 20th floor of my apt building. I will usually take the stairs unless I’m wearing heels. It makes me very sad when this obese woman takes the elevator when she lives on the second floor…. it’s one flight of 10 stairs.
@ missworld – If you look “thin but healthy”, then I am sure no one tells you that you look bad, and I’m pretty certain that you don’t suffer from any discrimination because of your size.
The point of this posting was the de-humanizing of obese people. That isn’t to say that anorexics don’t need love, too – it was about hating over appearance.
I’m not getting what the point of your comment is. I don’t thin k you do, either.
Would your name happen to be Syd?
…I have not thought of Syd in ages
I think in the thin-hate vs. fat-hate debate, the big difference is saturation and appeal.
Thin people are everywhere. Every magazine, every TV show, every movie, every ad. And though seeing thin people does not make people want to be thin, seeing thin people are normal and desirable does. Because we all want to be normal and desirable. And thin people, even when anorexic, are generally pleased with their thinness. They are likely still unsatisfied, but they are still accepted as people first, and thin second.
This is not the case for overweight people. They are well aware that they are not normal or desirable, and that society expects them to be unhappy with themselves (which is partially the reason why they shouldn’t be kissing- they don’t look miserable enough).
I think therein lies the reasoning behind the anti-fat shaming movement vs. the anti-thin shaming movement. People shame the overweight because they are afraid to be like them, and people shame the thin because they want to be like them.
But I’m sure we can all agree that hating on others for their appearance is not cool. Thin or fat, people should be supporting who you want to be, and not what others think you should be. It is so important that people are seen as people first, and that they aren’t judged for their appearance or lifestyle choices. We’ve got more than enough hate circulating the world, and we should all be making a conscious effort to counter that as much as we can.
Hmm, I hadn’t thought about it, but you’re right Laura. People who are overweight really are viewed as overweight first, and as barely human. Actually, their portrayal in the media kind of parallels the “slut v. virgin” theme. If you’re an innocent virgin/skinny, you’re happy and healthy. Whereas if you’re a slut (or have the audacity to lose your virginity, because we all know the guy always leaves right after and the girl is traumatized and psychologically damaged for years afterwards) or overweight, it’s supposed to consume everything you do, and you’re supposed to be miserable and unhappy.
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Laura, thanks for writing this and for explaining what is so very wrong about the piece in Marie Claire. However, a couple of your own statements are problematic as well. “The couple is actively trying to combat their weight – this is EXACTLY the message that should be promoted to overweight people. ” “People who are fat should try to be healthy.” “Some are even really fat. They should be encouraged to find a means of getting healthy…”
While you are firmly against hating people for being fat, you are still participating in the shame culture by telling fat people what they should and should not do. FAT does not equal UNHEALTHY, just as THIN does not equal HEALTHY. Some people are healthiest at a weight that many others consider fat. Many fat people eat well and exercise all the time and could kick my thin ass up and down the block. Some fat people are fat because they are on a medication that makes them gain weight, and in order to lose it they would have to go off the meds and endanger their health in other ways. For many fat people the lengths they would have to go to in order to lose the weight would be much unhealthier than just remaining fat. Beyond just not hating people for what they look like, I think we should also not pass judgment on them and assume we know what’s best for them.
@addy Come on, now you’re just beating a dead whale.
I bet missworld is a fat brunette.
Gigi, I honestly don’t know what you mean by that. Are you trying to be an asshole?
The whale comment, I mean. I don’t get the missworld thing either but the whale thing was directed at me so I figured I’d ask for clarification.
Also, a lot of fat people avoid doctors and don’t get preventative medical care because of the shame and mistreatment they’ve received in the past when they went in for a toothache or a broken bone or something else completely unrelated to their weight. Fat people are ridiculed when they exercise in public. The idea that fat people should be “encouraged” by thin people to do anything about their bodies is just ridiculous and ignorant. Fat people know they’re fat. They get shamed all the time by strangers, loved ones, doctors, the media.
For first-hand accounts of what I’m talking about, read through the comments on this post at Shakesville: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/10/discussion-thread-i-was-fat-shamed.html
@Addy Beating a dead horse is an idiom for touching upon a subject which has been repeatedly spoken about ad nauseum. Substitute ‘whale’ and badabing: fat person debate part 7382.
As for missworld: she writes an entire comment basically to congratulate herself for being a thin blond with large breasts. Internet interpretation: Fat brunette.
.
Explaining myself kind of takes the fun out of it.
@Addy, thanks for posting that link. I can’t believe that people fat-shame people who are working out. I mean, all of the stories are depressing, but the fact that people can see an overweight person working out and still assume they are lazy is just….confusing.
Ohh so you were being an asshole and you think it’s fun. Thanks for clarifying. Kinda sad that you think referring to fat people as whales is somehow original or cute or in any way funny.
I thot I was being a “good” person by being fat. Then I had a heart health crisis.
I finally realized that I could eat healthy & be thin. Or be around people & situations
that first made me puke & then made me fat.
The idea being that situations shouldn’t exist where that much emotion is swirling
around to make us become such public displays fat & otherwise.
The tail is wagging the dog here. These artificial situations are ridiculous.
Another thot about these shows. I know that 80% of kids carry parasites that’s the joy of youth.
However prolonging the acts of youth beyond the body’s ability to repudiate
the mistreatment creates severe health problems- some communicable!
Yes, these “reality” shows are wrong….. where is the CDC in all of this?
I’m not actually being an asshole, you are just being way uber over-sensitive, as usual. The point of much of the humor I use is to be purposefully thoughtless. It really wasn’t even a biting comment. And the impetus stands: dead horse=beaten.
@Gigi, stop talking about beating a dead horse, you’re just making her hungry. For delicious tender horse.
You wrote exactly what I was thinking. I do have to say this..I feel compassion for all people struggling with whatever. But honestly, I DO feel uncomfortable watching the obese person struggle to walk up to the buffet line for the third time. And I feel just as uncomfortable watching the anorexic be stressed at a function where food is being served. They kinda piss me off for bringing out these emotions in myself. I’m about 10 pounds overweight. Neither fat nor thin but I’ve been both before. I KNOW that a lot of people feel the same way as I do. BUT, I have never felt revulsion at obese/anorexic displays of affection. This just baffles me. There is not enough love in the world and it makes me happy to see it in any form.
this was supposed to be a reply to Erin’s comment at the very top…
This whole thing is so sad. I’m sure a lot of what I’m going to say has already been said. I would like to remind everyone that the media has helped make obesity what it is viewed as today. Does anyone remember art? Yeah that stuff hanging in museums that’s just full of people that would now be considered fat :) BTW: Obese is just a few pounds overweight, so it’s not too hard to be. Also, you should never assume you have any idea why someone isn’t taking stairs vs elevator or why they’re overweight at all! Multiple medical problems exist that could be making losing weight difficult for them. If you don’t like the way they look, instead of criticizing maybe you should work to do something to help them! BUILD self esteem so that they want to better themselves! OR maybe you stop for 5 seconds to try to understand their situation? So much about our country contributes to obesity: cost of healthy food choices, social/cultural habits, (deep breath) media’s message to our adults/children leading to the break down of their self esteem which in turn leads to depression (making them more apt to not do anything let alone exercise).
BTW: How do you know that person doesn’t avoid the stairs to avoid you because they feel bad about themselves?
FYI: I wont be reading any response you make to this so save your breath :)
“To be brutally honest, even in real life, I find it aesthetically displeasing to watch a very, very fat person simply walk across a room — just like I’d find it distressing if I saw a very drunk person stumbling across a bar or a heroine [sic] addict slumping in a chair.”
i think the author in this part meant that if you want to hide behind “i have a food addiction, i cant help it” be prepared to be viewed as a junkie.