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Film producer Scott Rudin has reportedly purchased the film rights to upcoming biography Queen of the Nile, Cleopatra: A Life, and has confirmed that the film is being developed with Angelina Jolie in mind for the leading role.
Rudin’s casting decision has caused controversy. Essence this weekend features an opinion piece that strongly criticises the casting decision and argues that the role should have gone to a black actress. The author of the piece, Shirea L. Carroll, writes:
‘Honestly, I don’t care how full Angelina Jolie’s lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a black woman. I mean, isn’t it enough that 47 years ago, Dame Elizabeth Taylor was cast to portray Cleopatra in one of the most expensive films ever made? That Elizabeth Taylor was actually the third white woman to be tapped for the Cleopatra role – following Vivien Leigh and Claudette Colbert – just makes this all the more comical. Were Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton unavailable for auditions that day? Why would Hollywood think it’s even slightly plausible to cast white women in roles that would be more sensible to case a black actress for? Especially when that role is an African Queen.’
Carroll’s views on this issue are interesting for a number of reasons – for one thing, history doesn’t actually give us a definitive picture of what Cleopatra looked like, let alone confirm that she was black. It is most commonly thought that Cleopatra was in fact of Macedonian Greek ancestry. Carroll recognises this in her article, stating that:
‘…while historically there is no concrete information that Cleopatra was of a darker complexion, there is more evidence than not that she was black, and not entirely of Greek ancestry, as Shakespeare, leagues of painters and now Hollywood would have us believe.’
Though Carroll does assert that there is no concrete information to prove that Cleopatra was of a dark complexion - ‘there is more evidence than not that she was black,’ I don’t feel that this particularly strengthens her argument in the piece.
In addition, Carroll’s piece seems to focus on the fact that Cleopatra was African, and should therefore be played by a black actress. This is problematic in itself – Africa is, and indeed always has been, a multicultural nation with citizens of many different skin tones and complexions. Just because Egypt is in Africa, does this mean that Cleopatra should be played by a black actress? Charlize Theron, for example, is African, and she’s a blonde-haired Caucasian – would she be a more appropriate choice than Angelina to play Cleo?
Whilst Carroll makes a valid point with her piece, that Hollywood should perhaps cast more black women in lead roles, I’m not sure the issue of Jolie’s casting is a particularly good lead from which to make this point. The lack of clarity over Cleopatra’s ancestry means that such vehement insistence that the role should be taken by a black woman is a purely personal conviction, and a conviction that has not gone down well with a number of commenters on the Essence website.
Carroll is clearly writing about a topic that she feels very passionate about, but I think I’m inclined to agree with some of the commenters who have expressed their concerns. There really aren’t any concrete reasons that can be given to explain why the role of Cleopatra should be played by a woman of any specific race.
In my mind, even if there were solid evidence that Cleopatra was a black woman, films are fiction. The movies have always been guilty of inaccurately portraying history, and are more about A-list actors and box-office figures and than historical or political accuracy. I’d be interested to hear what you guys think about this – in writing her article, has Shirea L. Carroll ‘bent’ history to make a political point about something she feels passionate about, just as movie-makers bend history for their own means? Is it really that terrible a decision to cast Angelina Jolie in the role? Who would you guys choose, and for what reasons?
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The British began their “habitation” of South Africa rather later than Cleopatra’s time, so I’m not sure what Charlize Theron’s blonde hair has to do with this.
However, hasn’t it been widely documented that Cleopatra had reddish blonde hair? She was a Ptolemie after all, with all the inbreeding to go along with it. Why should anybody assume she was black when descriptions from people who actually knew her describe her differently?
I suspect the Greeks aren’t in power in Egypt anymore either.
I think the relevant point is that if you’re going to insist that Cleopatra is played by an ‘African’, Charlize Theron is a valid choice. I suspect that’s not what Carroll meant.
It’s an example of why it is foolish to equate ‘African’ with ‘black’, as the writer is doing in declaring that an African character must be played by a black actress.
If this movie was being made about today’s Africa, Charlize Theron’s blonde hair and the fact that Greeks are no longer in power would be relevant.
But it’s not, so the comparison is meaningless.
I think it is reasonable to ask for black actors to play black characters. Or whatever else. It would seem to me rather silly to have a story set in say, Ethiopia, where the villagers are white. Or to make a movie about Chairman Mao and not hire a Chinese guy.
I can see the arguments from people that if based on a fictional character, the race should be maintained. I think there was a recent movie based on a book where a lot of nonwhite characters in the book are white in the movie. I can see that.
But this is taking it beyond logic into irrationality. ‘African’ is not ‘Black’. If you want some other word to describe skin colour, you’re welcome to make one up, but co-opting geography doesn’t work. An old friend of mine was genuinely African-Canadian (born in south africa, held dual citizenship). She was ethnically Chinese.
Cleopatra may have been ‘African’ in the sense of the land of her birth and rule, but she was ethnically Greek, and highly unlikely to have been even slightly black. It makes entire sense for a white actress to play her. It would make *less* sense to make her black, and would satisfy only the agenda.
Cleopatra’s race is not known, as you said. If she was definitely black then I agree that a black women deserves the role. People in Egypt are not as dark in people in say, Ethiopia. Giving an egyptian actress would make the most sense but that is most likely not a possibility thus, who ever is most capable of portraying the part through their acting abilities deserves the part, regardless of their skin color.
She was a Ptolemy, a family notorious for its inbreeding (they inbred so much it’s one of the big reasons their line collapsed, in fact). They weren’t black. There might have been a few dalliances with people far to the South, perhaps, but putting Jada Smith in the role wouldn’t be ethnically any more appropriate than Angelina, who doesn’t exactly look Mediterranean.
Yeah, I mentioned that earlier. For some reason people persist in believing that because there are no actual photographs of Cleopatra we should all ignore the extensive genealogies and actual descriptions written about her by people who actually saw her.
*shrug* I guess it’s more exciting this way.
My objection to Jolie is this- history leans more towards the fact that she wasn’t an amazing seductress but in fact a brilliant political mind. In fact, most historians would say that Cleo was plain at the very best. To focus on the fiction that was created, we’re ignoring a rare brilliant-woman-in-power-in-ancient-times story. Then again, the last time someone tried to do this sort of thing accurately we got “Alexander”, so maybe we’re better off with Jolie. (Note- Alexander is accurate in the sense that they followed what we now know to he his actual path to victory and defeat, but the problems lie in the fact that he changed the person, the politics and even EXISTING ARTIFACTS to match his story).
That was so poorly written. Agh.
Something that WAS known about Cleopatra:
She was not attractive.
So beyond race, we really need an unattractive woman to play the role properly.
(Sarcasm aside, in order to portray her story properly, you really might need an unattractive woman. Her whole rise to power was built off of her charm and sexuality- which were so apparent because she was not beautiful. The plot is sort of lost if she was a charming, sexualized, attractive woman).
Do charm and sexuality not make someone attractive? Or is attractiveness solely a matter of physical beauty?
I was trying not to use the word ‘ugly’, as it was a bit harsh, but if you’re forcing it-
Cleopatra was ugly. Aesthetically unappealing.
Obviously she was attractive in terms of character traits, or she wouldn’t have been able to seduce her way into an empire.
“Cleopatra was ugly. Aesthetically unappealing.”
That’s the inbreeding. It rarely ends with beautiful people…
there exist coins with her face on them, and yeah. she was not anything resembling good looking. All the existing descriptions of her also describe her as not physically attractive, but as so witty and charming that after speaking to her for a short while you simply forgot about it.
To be fair, nobody looks good in coin portraits (the features tend to get over-emphasized to the point of caricature), even those who were supposedly physically attractive…
Also to be fair, at least one ancient description of her doesn’t call her ugly, it just says that her beauty was not remarkable or incomparable, and that the success rates of her attempted seductions were *more* due to her charms than to her physical beauty.
That was Plutarch, by the way. I meant to cite it.
I think the criticism here is missing the forest for the trees. What we SHOULD be doing is allowing for all roles to be any race, and promoting minority actors instead of marginalizing them. Name one Asian film actress besides Lucy Liu.
…Sad, right?
I disagree somewhat.
I think that in most movies, about totally fictional characters, it would be great to just hire anyone, and not worry about race.
But if you’re trying to portray a specific historical figure, then I think it makes sense to pick someone who looks vaguely like them.
But if you think of how far off things are anyway in terms of historical accuracy in the costumes, props, accents, vocabulary; and the whitewashing of social problems of the time period, cleanliness, treatment of women and children, treatment of lower classes, etc. I don’t see a problem with having racial diversity. We use our societal lens to view all other aspects of movies. Obviously movies that are actually about race or involve it as an integral issue of their plots might be a different case.
Cleanliness is the one I always find funny. No-one would possibly want to watch a realistic movie from the 15th century..
It would obviously depend on what the story is about, but I would say that race does actually matter somewhat in Cleopatra’s case. One of the interesting parts is that Egypt had long been ruled by foreigners, and she was the first to bother to even learn the local language.
Do you really think it makes no difference at all? Would you not find something out of whack with a Chinese Cleopatra? Does it work the other way too? Does it work the other way too? Should a movie about Sadako Sasaki hire an Iranian actress? A Catherine the Great biopic played by a Mexican? Or someone doing Oprah’s life story played by a Polish woman?
I think it’s all about the acting. A good actor will make you believe the role he or she is playing, even if the character is a different gender or race. If the acting and the story are inspiring enough, the physical details of the actor matter much less.
I do think there’s a time and place where it’s more appropriate to use a conventional casting philosophy; like Oprah’s life story. But heck, I think even that, if done right, could work out with a white actress.
Maggie Cheung! Now your turn: name a female actor from Iran!
oh, what i really meant to say is: just because you can only name one “Asian” actor doesn’t mean it’s the media’s fault…I’d say it’s actually yours.
I see the point about Charlize Theron – Shirea L. Caroll is making her argument based on the idea that becasue Cleopatra was African, then she should be played by a black actress… but Charlize is African, unlike the black actresses (Halle Berry etc) that Caroll cites in her article on Essence – so why wouldn’t she be a better choice?!
Cleopatra’s race isn’t known, so why should a woman of any specific race play her in a film? It should be whoever can do the most convincing portrayal of Cleo – a strong and powerful woman with conviction.
Adam Lambert would have been prefect for the role!
Hey Joey, Adam is my old lady boy crush!!! I’d like to see him as one of the Egyptian slave men.
You ever seen him dressed as a woman,quite attractive.
I don’t have a problem with Angelina Jolie playing Cleopatra. I love her as an actress; she’s so good at playing powerful women who are very much in control of themselves and the people around them. So I’m probably a tad biased.
Jolie played Marianne Pearl, who is black, but that went over fairly well (possibly because Jolie and Pearl are friends).
Cleopatra’s ancestry was not unknown. She was a Ptolemy, a member of a Greek dynasty installed in Egypt by Alexander the Great. They also inbred to an alarming extent, adopting the Egyptian dynastic custom to keep the royal line “pure.”
She married her brother too, right?
I checked Wikipedia: “The famous Cleopatra VII was married to her younger brother, Ptolemy XIII. Her mother and father, Cleopatra V and Ptolemy XII, had also been brother and sister.”
Yikes.
That is how royalty rolls. They’re all up in their own bizniz.
[...] Angelina Jolie Mis-Cast As Cleopatra? – Zelda Lily [...]
[...] Angelina Jolie Mis-Cast As Cleopatra? – Zelda Lily [...]
And Jake Gyllenhaal isn’t persian, and Pandora doesn’t exist, and Kate Winslet isnt’ American….since when has Hollywood claimed to be realistic?
Wait, Pandora doesn’t exist?!? My love of the blue people has been crushed forever! ;)
No, honey. Pandora does exist – just ignore the mean people!
Hit the nail on the head. Its not like this is a documentary. Angelina is a money-maker. Leave it at that.
Wouldn’t it be racist if the casting team said, right from the start, “OK, NO white people will at all be considered for this role. If your skin color isn’t ‘Cleopatra’ enough, regardless of your talents, you will not be considered in the least”.
oh no! that would be fair! only white people can be racist!
*grin* I love when your sense of humor comes out!
Making a movie is a huge financial investment.
It’s not my money. If they feel that Angelina Jolie is the right actress for the job, then it’s their call.
Can you imagine some of the crap that will be churned out if they start applying this woman’s bizarre idea of who should be hired for roles based on her idea of what is fair?
Affirmative action has no place in the real world in this day and age.
I think the public is ready for a new black female actor. Take a risk and cast some exotic newcomer.
There is always room for new talent.
Do you think Hollywood is willing to gamble millions on an unknown?
I’m sick of Angelina. You know if they really wanted to create some buzz,Lindsay Lohan,and I’m serious. She reeks of sexuality,and she really can act. She’s hungry for a serious role to prove her self and the free publicity would be worth millions. I should be an agent!
Sure Lindsay reeks of sexuality (and herpes), but she’s too stoned off her ass to even show up to her sets. In any and every film she’s been in since Mean Girls, she’s been a trainwreck and a huge financial liability.
Yes, I read US magazine sometimes….
You act like stoned and diseased is a bad thing!
Avatar: Last Airbender.
If they’re in China, why are they WHITE?!?!?!
They aren’t in China. It’s an Asian influenced world. They should probably use Asian actors, but not necessarily Chinese.
Fine, I shall admit to my love of that cartoon to answer, don’t make me regret it. They’re not in China, they’re all over the world Mr. Colon-Slash. In fact the brother sister pair are from the south pole and little arrow head is from some air temple, why would you assume they were all from real world china?
My, my Copa. You sure do know your Airbender shit! *grin*
Damn skippy! 8)
[...] on Angelina Jolie Cast to Play Cleopatra – But Should the Role Have Gone to a Black Woman?: “The British began their “habitation” of South Africa rather later than Cleopatra’s [...]
Ok. So based on my research I haven’t found hard evidence that Cleopatra was a dark skin person. I did, however found that perhaps far back in her family line there are people of African descent. So yeah…no one really knows what she looked liked but we know that she is Egyptian which is in Africa. If color and looks don’t matter then why not cast someone of black descent? Why is it that every movie about Cleopatra starred a white actress? Is it just a coincidence or what? Is Angelina the ONLY actress that can pull it off? I don’t think so.
Chalize Theron is not a phenotypical African. Her family is European and settled in South Africa. Her mother is of German descent and her father was of French and Dutch ancestry; Theron is directly descended from early Huguenot settlers. So stop making the stupid comments about Charlize playing Cleopatra since she is South African.
I would try reading earlier comments if I were you.
GIGI…I already “tried” reading the comments. Are you trying to imply something?
Yes, I’m trying to imply that you did not read earlier comments. Or that you lack reading comprehension. Take your pick.
Cleopatra was, in fact, mostly Greek. She was a Ptolemy, a family which ruled Egypt since Alexander the Great added it to his empire (and lost it when he died, but the Ptoleys stayed there at Alexandria). So Jolie is a close match, I’d say, but way better-looking than Cleopatra ever was. She wasn’t beautiful in the classical sense, but she did take good care of herself.
[...] and Michelle Rodriguez have over time demonstrated that women can hold their own in action films, Jolie unquestionably takes the cake. No actress in Hollywood history has been able to chisel out the [...]
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@ GIGI
Well…I can read and I don’t suffer from lack of comprehension. I am well educated. I have a BA and MA in Sociology…take your pick idiot. I hope you didn’t use too many of your brain cells to make that comment which could have been better said by someone with developmental delays.
Everything that everyone is saying on this page is what they researched and partially opinion. So what’s your problem? I have the right to my opinion.
ps. Congrats to using a dictionary to help you along in this process…I applaud your efforts.
[...] on Angelina Jolie Cast to Play Cleopatra – But Should the Role Have Gone to a Black Woman? “Congrats to using a dictionary to help you along in this process…I applaud your [...]
I think a black woman should play Celeopatra. I like Angelina Jolie but you have to look at it from an African-American’s point of view. Not all but some white people talk so badly of us but then play a role that should really be palyed by a person of color. Is it that white people and i know not all white people feel this way can’t stand the fact that a black woman or woman of color was one of histories most powerful woman of that time. Egypt is in Africa. back then you tell me what did people skin color look like back then. or what were there feachers. If it’s realy no BIG deal let a woman of color play the role. All the noses were destroyed be because they were wide African-American feachers. If the shoe was on the other foot And a person of color played a role that I would even question don’t say you wouldn’t feel the same. Most people say race has nothing to do with it but it dose because thats all this world focueses on. Race,Money, Power, respect and thats a shame because thats not how it should be.
Seriously. Sometimes I am just so sure that this site must be bombarded with troll attacks to account for the shit which washes ashore here. Then I remember how incredibly stupid people are, how strictly self-serving they are, and how effective selective perception really is.
Feachers? Bleh, that sounds like some sort of insult, unless of course you mean features.
I think I’ll start using that as an insult. As in, “leave me alone, you creepy feacher!” I like it.
And yes, it drives me nuts that a black woman was one of the more powerful leaders in history. Aaaabsolutely nuts. I simply can’t stand it that someone who wasn’t pasty and blond had power.
I LOVE ATLA (cartoon version) and they DID whitewash the movie. Worst casting ever. M. Night took a huge crap on something that could have been golden.
Angie as Cleopatra? Not a great idea. Can’t someone find a greek actress who hasn’t gotten a nose job?????
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