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Oh, Brooklyn. We’ve never met, but I kinda feel like I know you because of Bored to Death and articles like this one, from CNN. As such, I’m not at all surprised there’s a great big brewhaha (don’t thank me, thank CNN’s headline writers) going down in hipster-central over whether or not the borough’s cool, young parents should be able to bring their brats into bars. As far as I’m concerned, babies have already ruined the movies, why not take bars next?
Am I being terribly mean and cold? Because this sure made me feel like it:
“As a stay-at-home dad, it can be kind of isolating. Bars, as much as they’re places to drink, they’re places to socialize and meet people,” said [Matt] Gross, 35, a freelance writer, an editor for the blog DadWagonand the columnist behind the Frugal Traveler in The New York Times. “I long for adult contact. … I don’t want to be excluded from the adult world.”
OK, OK. I smell what you’re stepping in, Matt, and I appreciate the rather valid point you brought up that yes, babysitters are expensive. (But they need beer money, too!) On the other hand, seriously, what kills a buzz faster than a crying baby?
Single hipsters and others without (and sometimes with) kids complain about being asked to watch their language, to not smoke outdoors near strollers and to keep their drunk friends under control so as not to scare the little ones.
Bar owner Greg Curley notes “a sense of entitlement on both sides.” His Brooklyn bar, The Double Windsor, has a “no-kids-after-5 p.m. rule.” Such compromises appease Gross, who only likes to take his baby daughter out to “mellow” places “in the late afternoon or early evening” anyway.
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Babies do not belong in bars, period. There are plenty of places where you can have adult interaction without going to a bar. If you really must socialize at night then invite people round to your house. If you can’t live without bars then go to a family friendly place like a brewery restaurant or a place like Chili’s but go earlier in the day. We have a great brewery restaurant locally which I’m sure is buzzing at night but at lunch time it’s a lovely spot to have lunch and they have amenities like a well thought out kids menu, high chairs, and changing tables in the bathrooms. You can talk to all your adult buds, get some good beer and bar-type appetizers, and not have to deal with those people who are drinking and getting rowdy at night.
I love people who run headfirst into parenthood and then complain about, um, having to make sacrifices for their kids. And then the next logical step is to demand special treatment because OMG I HAVE KIDS HERE DAMMIT.
WHO KNEW that bringing a new life into this world, one that’s completely dependent on you for almost two decades and can’t even be left alone at all for at least half of that time, would actually require a lot of time and effort and life changes and sacrifices? WHO KNEW? I thought parenting was all about, like, buying cute little clothes and painting the nursery and stuff.
Hehe your comment made me laugh.
You mean babies aren’t accessories that will love you unconditionally when no one else in your life does? You’ve just ruined the hopes and dreams of thousands of 16-year-old girls with mommy issues.
There were two teenage girls in line behind me yesterday who were discussing the number and sex of the children they wanted to have. They’d even decided on the order in which to have each sex of child.
I laughed. Out loud.
Oh, geez, I hope they heard you!
Haha actually I would love two girls and a boy but I’m certainly not planning on that happening with any certainty.
That’s normal. Most people know what they’d like, but they don’t expect that it will happen with any certainty.
I bet they were married to Henry VIII in a past life.
“No, really, I can totally give you a male heir! I’ve penciled it in and everything so it’s TOTALLY gonna happen!”
haha!
Didn’t ZL just have an article on this same subject a month or so ago?
Anyway, bringing a baby into a bar is just completely inappropriate. Suck it up and get a sitter if you’re so desperate to go.
Yeah that came to my mind as well, there was another article on exactly the same topic some time ago. I’m glad I’m not going crazy and someone else remembered it too :)
Depends on what we’re talking about. I’ve seen a number of places that are somewhere between restaurant and pub, and all-ages during the day, but close to underagers after a certain hour, giving the evening over to being a bar. I think that is acceptable. I agree with banning children of all sorts from bars and such at night in general.
During regular hours, I know of several bars/pubs that feature food for all ages, and a nice atmosphere free of smoke, crazy drunk people, and profane language. I would honestly have no problem with someone bringing a small child there, during daylight hours, or even very early evening when an early dinner could still be had.
HOWEVER. After nightfall, when that place flips the switch from happy, bright pub, to a dark bar with scantilly clad, smoking women and Jager-bomb pounding men, it’s time to take the baby/child HOME. In no way is it appropriate to have a child in a bar once it has become a “bar.”
I have to agree with everyone who posted before me and fill ole Dad Wagon in on the fact that a sitter for 2 hours or so would probably only run you about $10-20. And if it’s really THAT necessary for you to go out and interact with adults in a bar setting, maybe you need to reprioritize your life and recognize the fact that it’s time to focus on your child. Not saying that parents of younger children can’t have a good time, they can, but bringing baby along with you is 100% inappropriate.
Not to mention, when I go to a bar, a baby is the LAST thing I want to see! I’m there to get a little tipsy, say the bad words that I can’t say in front of kiddos, and maybe smoke a cigarette if I get drunk enough. I don’t need a baby hindering that.
I agree with you completely. The main thing that bothers me about this is that parents want to change the main function and patronage of a bar- which is and always has been geared toward adults- to suit the person who is NOT the main function or patronage of a bar- parents with kids-that in and of itself is unfair.
Take your kid to a kid-friendly place and stop whining. I swear to God, America is full of whiners who do not have their priorities straight in the slightest! It’s extremely audacious and delusional to expect a BAR to pander to your specific needs with a CHILD. Ridiculous.
And by the way, how is there entitlement on BOTH sides? There’s clearly entitlement on ONE side- the hipster parents. It’s perfectly reasonable for a single person WITHOUT kids to expect to be around other single people without kids at a BAR. SMH…
I’ll do a case study this evening. I’ll go to the bar, watch for babies, and report back tomorrow. Oh, the things I do for Zelda Lily. You all owe me big time for having to go out and have lots of beers tonight. Big time.
We appreciate your sacrifice.
Baby Goo Goo has just learned to throw toys at me. No way does she deserve to go out drinking.
Ha!
If you can’t afford a babysitter how can you afford the over priced drinks at a bar? Seems priorities are a bit off.
When I go down the pub and I’m on the lash and I want to get trolleyed I don’t care if there are kids. I’m sorry about the kids, but I’m just really waiting for a parent to come up to me and tell me, at 1 am, to keep it low because the baby is sleeping in the bloody pram. Ah, hilarity will ensue. I’m usually really chilled but woah son.
It’s just bloody irresponsible – drunk students, loud music, probably cigarette smoke; anyone who thinks a pub is a suitable place for a baby probably shouldn’t have spawned in the first place. Makes my blood boil.
I can understand people being annoyed by kids in their partying atmosphere. I even get kind of annoyed when I’m out at an expensive restaurant with my husband and somebody’s crying kid is there.
I got a babysitter and spent a lot of money to have a nice dinner in a peaceful environment, and then YOUR screaming kid ruins my evening? Fuck that.
If I’m going to eat dinner with a kid screaming at me it’ll be a dinner I made in my own home.
Yeah, I told my fiancee that when the time comes for us to spawn, the kid will not be allowed out with us in public ANYWHERE until it’s old enough to understand proper outside-the-house behavior, whether it’s a super-mature kid like we both were (I was a bipolar terror as a teenager but a well-mannered dream child right up until puberty) and is an angel in public by age 2, or a manic brat that will need to painstakingly learn how to behave over the course of several years if it ever wants to see other people. I would rather pay a babysitter premium, or leave the kid with my mom for a few hours a week (we don’t really go out all that often even now), than subject people to a shrieking tantrum. *I* don’t even wanna be subjected to a shrieking tantrum, so why would I inflict it on anyone else too?
I hate entitled parents. Well, I hate entitled people in general, but entitled parents are the particular group we’re talking about right now. I hate that they think they deserve special treatment just for walking into the room with a kid like it’s some rare event. It never ceases to amaze me how many women think they deserve an Olympic medal and royal treatment for having a baby when it’s A SIMPLE BIOLOGICAL FUNCTION THAT ALMOST ANYONE WITH A VAGINA CAN DO (sorry, infertile ladies, I wish I could transfer their birthing privileges to you, I really do). Congratulations, your body did EXACTLY what it’s built to do, now shut up. And lest the ladies get all the blame, dads who act like they deserve to be canonized for actually giving a crap about their children and being involved in their lives are also on my shit list. HOLY SHIT YOU PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR KID? WOW IT’S ALMOST LIKE YOU’RE A PARENT OR SOMETHING. SOMEONE CALL THE VATICAN, A MAN HAS CONDESCENDED TO HELP WITH THE LOWLY WOMAN’S TASK OF CHILDREARING.
Anyway, people who think everyone else has to parent their kid for them by immediately stopping any behavior they personally find objectionable suck. If you don’t want your kid exposed to something, don’t take them somewhere it’s likely to happen. I wouldn’t throw a baby into the shark tank at Sea World and then pitch a fit if the sharks eat it, you know? THEY’RE SHARKS, THEY EAT SMALL THINGS MADE OF MEAT, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO, SNUGGLE WITH IT?
So you’re going to keep your kid inside until they learn to behave outside? Good luck with that. Sorry if that sounds a bit snarky but it’s really unrealistic. Don’t take them in to situations where you know they’re going to turn in to hell spawn e.g. no fancy restaurants during their grilled cheese only phase and no grown up movies if they can’t even sit through a cartoon at home. They do need to be exposed to those type of experiences if they’re ever going to learn how to deal with them.
I’ve been taking my son to movies and restaurants and various other public venues since he was a baby. We started off with the baby pictures program at the cinema (specifically geared towards moms with kids under age 1) and then moved on to kids flicks. I still wouldn’t take him to a show where I know he’d be bored but he goes to the kids movies on a regular basis and some movies geared at older movie goers. He’s crazy about Harry Potter and has seen the last couple in the cinema. I buy him some popcorn and a soda and the most disruptive thing is does is occasionally ask to sit on my lap and he does that with gestures rather than making noise. Same thing with restaurants. He’s been going since he was a baby, nowhere fancy and at appropriate times, and at age 4 he knows the rules and follows them. He orders his own meal politely; one time he ordered spaghetti and they brought penne so he said “excuse me sir, I asked for the spaghetti please.” Once the waiter was done scraping his jaw off the floor (clearly the poor guy had too much exposure to hell spawn) he apologized for his mistake and brought out the correct dish.
Sorry that got a bit long winded, may have lapsed in to mommy boasting a wee bit ;-) Long story short, keeping the kids home until they can behave in public doesn’t work.
Wow. You have a glorious child!
I have to agree, Rhonda.
I took my kids everywhere (NOT bars!), but you have to use common sense.
I think the number one rule is be firm at home. My kids all knew/know who is in charge, and tantrums and bad behaviour were a very bad idea.
That said, the parent has to use good sense as well. A child that is overly tired or just in a mood is not going to be any fun at all in public.
You got it, Rhonda.
I meant expensive restaurants. Like, if you walk in and see a bunch of couples and nobody else has their kids there, maybe you should go somewhere else with your screaming aged child. Or be prepared to get up and leave if they start screaming. Don’t sit there and try to shush them in an attempt to salvage your meal while ruining ours.
Another You Got It Rhonda from me. Did the same with my kids eons ago.
I remember going out to dinner with the folks as a kiddie, and there certainly were no tantrums or yelling or we left! I was taught to order and say thank you, and not get involved in other diner’s conversations.
I think its important to let kids see the world in which they have to behave. I take Baby Goo to lunch with my girlfriends and she sits in her car seat until she complains, and then she sits on the table in front of me, or on my lap, and tries to grab at food. She finds it all so interesting she doesn’t cry. She never ever cries in public, so people think she is this ideal baby, which is SO ANNOYING because at 4.30am she is screeching her head off and hitting me in the face.
95% glorious, 5% pure evil ;-) He’ll almost always behave in public because he knows he won’t enjoy the consequences if he doesn’t. Getting him to pick up his toys at home however can be more painful than having teeth pulled without drugs.
Just got a minute. My sister and I were just talking on how our Grandpa used to take us to the “beer joint.” We loved it there, coca cola and hershey bars, yeah. I came from a long line of alcoholics.