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Last Friday, over at NEWSWEEK’s “Human Condition” blog, Mary Carmichael took on a heavy subject and not all the commenters were pleased about her P.O.V.
She began by recounting some of her experiences from her first pregnancy: how people glared at her coffee cup (decaf, but who asked her?) and her sushi (approved by her OB, but again, these judge-y strangers didn’t bother to ask). By getting knocked up, had she given up her rights to “autonomy, dignity, [and] privacy”?
Sure, she says, there’s been plenty of discussion about to whom the pregnant body belongs in the context of the abortion, but maybe there’s not enough of it going on where wanted pregnancies are concerned. (For anyone else who’s ever felt that way, I highly suggest the chapter “Are Mothers Persons?” from Susan Bordo’s “Unbearable Weight.”)
Not only did these pushy, judge-y strangers deny Carmichael’s subjecthood in her own body — she’s just an incubator — such people often don’t even have the science to back up their criticisms, she says. Studies have clearly shown certain habits to be bad for mom and fetus, such as smoking. However, when it comes to the evil effects of a single cup of coffee or a single glass of wine — things mom might enjoy — after the first trimester, the science isn’t there, she says. So Carmichael challenges pregnant women to respond to nosy-nosertons thusly:
The next time someone admonishes you for eating Brie or sipping a cappuccino, turn the judgment and invasion of privacy back on the other person. Tell him fatty cheese and coffee aren’t good for anyone, and you really don’t think he should eat or drink them either. If someone says you’ve gained a lot of weight, respond, “At least I have an excuse.”
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Parents have a social obligation to try not to raise an asshole or a dependent
I had to google Pinot Grigio,it sounds tasty,I’m going to start drinking more wine.
Oh dear, are you not supposed to have regular coffee during pregnancy? This may cause problems for me in the future…
It increases the risk of miscarriage. I think it also leads to lower birth weight but I may just be thinking of smoking there.
Damn. I’m going to need these next few years to mentally prepare for decaf.
You can safely have a cup of coffee a day. Your OB will tell you this, don’t take my word for it! I’d be more concerned with limiting High Fructose Corn Syrup, hydrogenated oils (trans fats) and MSG. Oh yeah, and heat your lunch meat and hot dogs to steaming… haha!
I think people just need to mind their own damn business.
In terms of alcohol use, regular alcohol consumption leads directly to FAS and other birth defects. Although one glass probably won’t affect your baby, if you don’t have the restraint to say no, it can turn into a weekly relaxing tool, then daily, so on..
Everything is fine in moderation, but it’s drawing that line that causes problems.
Oh my gosh, this last Thanksgiving I posted (on Evil Beet Gossip) the recipe I used to bake my turkey with champagne and apples. I also commented on Beet’s brie tarts. Because I had mentioned being pregnant I had all these self righteous little ninnies admonishing what I was doing like they had just seen me stream live video of myself shooting up drugs!!! I am a very well imformed individual and I’m obsessive with the health of my babies. I tend not to write things now on blogs that I feel I have to defend myself for….
When I was huge and pregnant, I went out to eat with my mom and husband. I was craving beer for some reason, but of course I couldn’t drink it. I took the tiniest sip from my husband’s glass…maybe 2-3 drops of beer. I got the NASTIEST looks from the old biddies at the table next to me. Whispering, glares, you name it.
When you get pregnant it’s like you don’t matter only the baby. You could poke your own eyes out with a fork and no one would care as long as the baby is ok. I’m all for being careful when you’re pregnant but why do I have to cease to exist?
The mother can do whatever she wants to her body–it’s her choice, and she’ll have to suffer the consequences.
The baby, however, has no choice. It just has to put up with whatever the mother does to it (or allows to happen to it).
I think that’s the basic argument there.
I know Sydney, I’m just bothered that people aren’t equally concerned about the mother.
I did not touch a drop of alcohol while pregnant, because I am a total hypochondriac and I didn’t want to deal with my own anxiety about it, not because I thought the odd glass was an issue. However, I did belong to a pub music trivia team, and recieved many a nasty look and comment for being in the pub drinking soda water and eating nachos.
I maintain though, women who get drunk while pregnant should automatically lose rights to their children.
Agreed.
I personally wouldn’t risk it–as soon as I’m pregnant, there will be no caffeine, alcohol, sushi (that’ll be a tough one), etc. And I’ll make my fiance clean the litterbox, and I’ll probably flee anytime someone lights up a cigarette within twenty feet of me. Paranoid? Probably. But a healthy baby is totally worth it.
You are presuming that doing all these things will automatically pan out to a healthy baby. Sometimes genetics trump what you think you can control. You SHOULD do everything you can to have and maintain a healthy child. You should also be aware that babies can be born too early, have autism, ADHD, Downs syndrome, cerebal palsey etc. and all for no reason.
On the subject of autism: I’m a 32 year-old man with Asperger Syndrome, which is an Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I know you’re not equating Downs Syndrome and autism, but I feel like I should let you know that autism isn’t as bad as some groups make it out to be (Autism Speaks comes immediately to mind). Yes, it can make parenting very difficult (of course, IMO, parenting is always difficult) — but it’s not an automatic ticket to lifelong silence and/or dependence. In fact, I didn’t realize the weirdness of my character was a known condition until about two years ago. In addition, autistics nearly always have special talents which make up for the social dysfunction — I consider AS to be mostly a blessing. There are a lot of misconceptions about ASD, which I won’t attempt to address here. Suffice to say don’t freak out if your child ends up ‘on the spectrum’.
I’m not trying to disparage anyone who may have any disorder I mentioned. What I’m trying to convey is that regardless of what your mother did while you were in the womb, as far as modern science knows, you would be the same. I personally know people on opposite ends of the “spectrum”. Aspergers is NOTHING compared to the nonverbal, violent, obsessive and trapped individuals who have true autism. That is who I’m reffering to when I say autism. You and Bill Gates are blessed I’m sure… my best friend’s sister (who has been on anti-psychotics for the last 10 years) has gained a massive amount of weight due to the medicine. They recently tried to switch her medication and in one of her rages she hit a 2 year old and knocked him down, bit and scratched her mother until she bled, and it took 3 family members to restrain her. This is a woman (23) who will never live on her own. The sacrifices and hell her family has gone through don’t really compare to someone who graciously has some social awkwardness and a photographic memory. It’s like saying someone has skin cancer when it’s just a freckle. Autism is no joke and it can happen to anyone…
I’d be pissed off too if I had been forced to take anti-psychotics for a decade. Can someone ever truly consent if they cannot communicate? Which is not to say striking anyone is ever appropriate in any other case than self-defense. I just doubt that anyone can know another’s mind unless they tell you, barring telepathy. Let me know when someone invents a mind-reading device.
I don’t know your friend’s sister, but it’s easy to imagine how she might feel. I’m not always verbal, but there’s almost always high-level thought going on in my head. Temple Grandin talks about thinking in pictures, to which I can also relate. There are more than a few people on the spectrum who are completely non-verbal, but are geniuses when they use a computer to speak. It’s a sad fact that many people on the spectrum have been subjected to forced drugging, seclusion, and restraint instead of actual psychotherapy and human empathy. I submit that this can drive anyone, autistic or no, mad.
No autism is no joke. It should be respected and used for what it is, a mixed blessing. To elaborate my condition: I can play five musical instruments at a professional (any genre but classical) level; I taught myself music theory, have a degree in audio production, and am designing and building a recording studio; I passed one of the hardest computer certifications around (the CCNA); I scored comparably to seniors when I took the SAT at 13; I now have extreme anxiety whenever I need to make a phone call; I didn’t kiss a girl (ever) for two four year stretches because I was so paralyzingly shy and scared not to make an unwanted advance (impossible to know if she’s into you if you can’t read body language); I have a really hard time remembering faces and names (not to mention matching the correct ones) — mostly because eye contact is almost painful sometimes. Luckily I found a therapist who specializes in adults on the spectrum :) The only drugs I use to manage my condition are cannabis (which I believe to be sacred and safer than pretty much everything else in the world, water included), caffeine, and pain relievers for an unrelated injury. I cannot stress enough how uneasy it makes me to think about people who have no control of their lives being fed anti-psychotics (or any drugs, really) against their will. It seems like chemical slavery to me.
Ugh… Ok listen, you said you didn’t realize you were part of the autism spectrum until 2 years ago? Have you been diagnosed on an official level? To me, you just sound like a difficult man.
You are assuming my friend’s sister has never had therapy or been worked with from the time she was 3. She uses rudimentary sign language and only to convey what she wants to eat or drink. She takes 3-4 baths a day because she is obsessed by water. She walks around her house flapping her hands and groaning. She spends most of her time in her room away from the family and shys away from affection or conversing. If there was an alternative to her being on medication, her family would welcome it. She is nearly 250 lbs and DANGEROUS when not on medication. She became very violent around puberty and this is what prompted the meds. Her family loves her and do everything they can for her. It’s because of the medication that they are able to take care of her at home instead of having to have her institutionalized.
I refuse to continue this line of conversation, as we are off-topic and if you truly have Aspergers it’s not really fair for me to argue with you…
I guess my caveat about not knowing your friend’s sister wasn’t strong enough. I’m sorry I implied that nothing had been tried besides medication, but there are numerous reports in the news these days about the treatment I described in public schools and elsewhere. I truly hope your friend’s family can find a way to be happy, whatever the method.
Asking if I have an official diagnosis (before declaring the discussion closed) isn’t very cool , but I’ll answer. I have been screened by a licensed mental health professional, scoring 92 when 80 and above is considered ‘high probability’. An official diagnosis is only a matter of time.
“if you truly have Aspergers it’s not really fair for me to argue with you…”
That’s just insulting. Imagine I said to you (hopefully it’s obvious I don’t believe this) “If you’re truly a woman it’s not really fair for me to argue with you…”
Agreed, discussion closed.
Whooooooooooooa Jess!
I cannot believe that you said that.
How very condescending. You obviously know nothing of Asperger’s and apparently damn little about Autism.
I have a friend by the name of Bill who has Asperger’s. Bill and I communicate almost solely online because he can be Bill. Face to face is very difficult for him. He is the wittiest, most intelligent, and caring person I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
This man has amassed more degrees than anyone I have ever met – not to mention being accepted to law school. He is retired from the Air Force now, something that is a huge relief for him, but he managed for 20 years to force himself to go to the base every day.
I am nearly incapable of expressing how much admiration I have for this man.
I find your attitude and cavalier comments insulting, Jess. I suggest that if you wish to comment, please know what you are talking about.
Everyone has abilities.
Everyone has disabilities.
Ok I’ll bite one last time. The point of my initial post was to point out that during a pregnancy, any number of abnormalities may present regardless of how carefull and healthy the mother may be. I listed Autism (not Aspergers) as one of those disorders, as I know on a very personal level, a family affected by this.
I don’t think they, or any other family dealing with a severely autistic family member, would equate a HIGHLY functioning, productive member of society with what is essentially a life-long dependant state of being. And I dare you to tell them it’s a blessing their loved one is afflicted by this.
My personal belief is that Aspergers should not even be considered in the same realm as the traditional definition of Autism. It is simply not the same.
I may incite a condescending tone when challenged by another poster that Autism is somehow a pretty neat thing to have. Bravo to those who have social ineptidudes, yet manage to motor through life and be successfull. But don’t lump yourself in with individuals who will never speak, care for themselves, have a family or relationships of their own. That is not a blessing.
This is from “Autism Speaks” – a highly regarded source for education, support and information.
What is Autism?
Autism is a general term used to describe a group of complex developmental brain disorders known as Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDD). The other pervasive developmental disorders are PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not
Otherwise Specified), Asperger’s Syndrome, Rett Syndrome and Childhood Disintegrative Disorder. Many parents and professionals refer to this group as Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Please don’t congratulate yourself on being condescending. It was obvious from your response to the other poster that you don’t understand a lot about this complex condition, and that you also didn’t understand his post.
Nice try, though.
And Jess?
The other poster has every right to present his side of Autism.
He lives it.
EVERY person who has autism isn’t in the same box as your friend’s family member.
no-one is trying to disparage the individual experience. but in the same way that assuming a classical noncommunicative low-functioning autistic person with all ASDs would be wrong, it is wrong of high functioning people with Asperger’s to equate his mixed experience with strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others with all ASDs.
There are some that are mildly on the spectrum, or with Asperger’s where the ‘disorder’ is really just a different way of thinking that comes with its upsides and downsides.
but there are others in what was known as classic ‘autism’ that are trapped in their own heads without the ability to connect. and while I cannot speak for their experience, neither can glarbl_garbl, or anyone else, since they have been unable to communicate it.
And *that* is a disorder, and a tragedy.
Calling one thing ‘autism’ is not necessarily indicative of no knowledge in the area. While ‘autism’ is often used these days to refer to the whole spectrum including PDD and Asperger’s, ‘autism’ has also long been used to describe the specific ‘classical autism’. It’s still fairly common.
Kai, you completely missed the point.
glarbl simply brought up that all Autism isn’t completely horrific. Given that he states that he has Asperger’s, I can understand why he did so.
It could be compared to someone stating “OMG! don’t do X while pregnant, your baby could be born with YZ!”
Now, a person who has YZ reading this may have the need to let the general public that not all YZ is horrible, life ending, whatever. They may want to present their experience to let others know about it.
To then have someone adopt a dismissive tone such as ” …if you truly have Aspergers it’s not really fair for me to argue with you…” ?
Well, that’s pure ignorance and I’ll call someone on it every time.
I see where Jess was going with her statement. I don’t think it was quite as offensive as Blurry thinks. Yes glarbl was putting his (fortunate and not life-ending) experience with his disease out there; it’s true that autism and the like aren’t necesarily life-ending. However, as Jess clearly has personal experience with this, sometimes it is. I think it’s probably better to view autism through realism in that it does make a lot of people unable to live on their own. It’s fantastic if they thrive by themselves, but many don’t.
I won’t take sides though, because Jess’s comment:
I refuse to continue this line of conversation, as we are off-topic and if you truly have Aspergers it’s not really fair for me to argue with you…
was pretty nasty.
I don’t think anyone should automatically “lose rights to their child” for drinking..? I think it’s that type of thinking that causes all the nasty looks and judgements. Look. I hate smoking… HATE it. My mother (back in the day) smoked through her entire pregnancy and gave herself props for not smoking pot while pregnant. *I* would never do that. However, I came out just fine. You obviously do what you can and will to ensure the safety of your baby. However, getting all high and mighty about alcohol when someone else might harshly admonish you for eating tuna or drinking a diet Coke is a little crazy. I got flack from my hairdresser for dying my hair while pregnant. Well, I’m not walking around with 7 inches of roots while I already feel like a beached whale wearing tents and elastic pants so back the f*ck off! :)
“Well, I’m not walking around with 7 inches of roots while I already feel like a beached whale wearing tents and elastic pants so back the f*ck off! :)”
HAHAHA! I love you for this! That was hilarious! Thanks for making me laugh!
Consider that what was said was ‘getting drunk’ while pregnant – not just drinking. While a glass or two isn’t likely to be a problem, I think most people are in agreement that drunkenness is a different story.
I considered that. Consider that it takes me 2 drinks to get drunk and it might take you 6 (you lush). Consider that throughout history women probably got drunk off their faces while pregnant and birthed some healthy babies. Consider that for all you know, a study will come out tomorrow stating that eating hotdogs while pregnant or too many steamed carrots produces an X% chance of X while pregnant. People I know are HARDCORE against kids being allowed to eat sugar and will cite studies, regularly. My kids eat sugar. 0 out of 4 are obese or otherwise unhealthy. They all have very healthy attitudes towards food and its purpose. Except in cases of REAL present danger, I say mind your business.
Im not talking about the things that may or may not have a miniscule chance of having an effect on a baby, I’m talking about getting drunk. Because every single Fetal Alcohol Syndrome child I have ever seen came from a drunk mother. And I stand by my belief that children who’s mothers neglect their wellbeing are children who should be taken away from their mothers. And these children should be given to people who want to be parents so much that they will not neglect their wellbeing. Do you think a child of a mother who has drunk so much her kid has a disabillity will then be a nurturing, caring mother of a special needs child, or do you think she will drink her face off and leave the child in a dirty nappy somewhere?
My cousin has FAS. Her mother absolutely never addressed the issue. She was too afraid of of accepting responsibility for the problem to seek help for her daughter.
Whenever she was asked by school counselors if that could be a problem, she denied it. My cousin was always denied any treatment or special help in school, because my aunt just flat out refused to take responsibility for her actions.
Also, I want to point out that in case we’re really not seeing eye to eye – I am not talking about women that are clearly sick. Obviously there would need to be some kind of intervention in that case for the sake of the woman and the child. I’m referring to someone that is attending a wedding perhaps and feels that it would be ok to have 2-3 drinks getting the side-eye and heavy handed “advice” at every turn. I find this issue strangely reminiscent of the abortion issue. It boils down to one woman’s idea of “safe” or “ok” vs. another’s. That also applies to “Anon” – are we sure that it was definitely the wine that caused the tragedy? (That’s horrible, by the way, I’m sorry to hear that.) If so, does that mean every other woman who drinks will suffer the same fate? I had a friend who tried for ages to get pregnant, once she was she basically lived in a bubble and was ecstatic and then miscarried a stillborn baby at 5.5 months. Why? I have no idea and neither do the doctors. I don’t know where I’m going with that exactly just don’t be too quick to judge other people and suggest removing their children if their value system doesn’t mirror yours – as I said, it’s a slippery slope.
I absolutely do think that my many many children should be taken away from their parents. We are going through the process of adoption at the moment and soon we will have to participate in a homestudy where our family is observed, and we are taught parenting skills etc. Even though I have already been a foster parent, and now have my on biological child I think that it is wonderful that I am under such scrutiny because it means that the children to be adopted will hopefully go to decent homes where they will be cherished and cared for. I think every parent should have to be monitored if they are in a risk catagory, such as substance abuse, in the same way that people adopting are monitored.
The key is ‘probably’ won’t affect your baby. One of the current theories with FAS is that drinking on a day when crucial neurological developments are taking place can cause FAS, regardless of how much or how little alcohol is consumed on other days.
IOW, you might not mow down a kid on a bike every time you speed through a residential area, but the occasional time it happens makes it really stupid to do, ever. And yes, you might mow down a kid on a bike if you’re not speeding and you’re paying really good attention, but that doesn’t make it any smarter to speed through the neighborhood.
Seriously, if someone can’t give up alcohol for nine months, they need to be questioning their dependency on alcohol. And if she’d rather risk having a child that has problems in school because the kid can’t concentrate, can’t follow directions, are prone to outbursts, will likely have mental health issues including being unable to hold down a job and unable to control sexual behavior, and are mentally slower than they would have been if she would have refrained from drinking, she needs to be questioning whether she should be a mother.
Good analogy with the driving example. You lost me when you threw in that the child would “likely” have mental health issues and be unable to hold down a job or control their sexual impulses. That’s ridiculous. I have consumed some level of alcohol during all 4 of my pregnancies. Not because I’m an alcoholic, I very rarely drink actually (although you may think differently based on my staunch defense!) – my issue is as another commenter mentioned – it’s as if sometimes the pregnant woman’s wants or needs are completely ignored in the face of being pregnant. Every drug you can take to alleviate the various pains of pregnancy is either blatently unsafe (ibuprofen etc.) or simply hasn’t been tested in pregnancy and therefore no good either. With my last pregnancy, I had MAYBE 3 drinks, total – 1/2 here, 1/2 there – and it made me happy at the time in the face of a lot of stuff that was making me unhappy ie. stretch marks, sickness, having to go on early mat leave bc I couldn’t do the lifting, wearing hand-me-down mat clothes that made me feel like a hobo since I was off work. If that makes me a bad mother, then so be it. I just find it really infuriating when people look in from the outside and point to a bunch of crap they read or think they know, pick out the worst case scenario and then use it to browbeat another person into behaving how they want or feeling guilty. Maybe in order to have a baby going forward, all mothers should be monitored for all manners of eating/drinking/behaviour that could result in issues for the unborn baby? You’d think most mothers, to the best of their abilities, have their baby’s best interests at heart while trying to balance that with their own needs but hey, we can’t all naturally be as well educated and perfectly selfless as we should be (apparently).
Every other ‘bad when pregnant’ thing that was mentioned in this whole post, even smoking, has a huge possibility of not causing any problems at all. Substance abuse does not. Babies who escape scot free from a substance abusing mother are the lucky ones – and who is to know that later behavioural or learning difficulties were not caused by prenatal ingestion of drugs/alcohol anyway?
@tvf “Seriously, if someone can’t give up alcohol for nine months, they need to be questioning their dependency on alcohol” How true.
@rvh – by likely I meant if they have FAS, they are likely to have these problems.
OMG I’m 6 months along right now and finally got the nerve to dye my hair last week. I said EXACTLY the same thing when my friends tried to criticize me for it. I’m glad to hear that I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Amanda, this is so freaking simple!
You’re really going to wonder why you didn’t think of it.
Just look offended – and say something like “What do you mean, pregnant?????”
They’ll skulk off in shame and think twice before they accost the next chubby woman.
One of my friends did that when she was so clearly pregnant and ready to pop. She was picking up hair dye for her MIL at the drug store and the clerk told her off for dyeing her hair while pregnant. She just stared her down and said “what makes you think I’m pregnant?” then waddled off to a chorus of giggles from the line behind her.
Bahahahaha lol at Blurry! Do it!
@LadyGooGoo – Maybe? Maybe they are borderline highly functional alcoholics who will go on to get help. Of course every case of FAS was caused by alcohol – my point is that many cases of NOT having FAS is also caused by alcohol. As I said, I would NEVER smoke during pregnancy (or otherwise – nor did I drink) BUT I did dye my hair, drink coffee (decaf and otherwise), and run – all of which did no harm to my children but all of which I was warned about and tsk tsk’ed about endlessly. Again, my mother smoked like a chimney throughout her pregnancy and I’m fine. I’m sure generations of women drank with no visible ill-effects. I don’t think it’s grounds for that kind of judgement and certainly not taking a child away. Sober people leave kids unattended in dirty diapers too, you know..
I guess I’m just saying it’s a slippery slope. It may very well take a village and all that but pregnancy is hard enough without every jackass you encounter giving a lecture about what to do and not to do. Fun fact: With two of my pregnancies, I had this condition (forget the name and too lazy to google) where you get cravings for things that are inedible – with one it was chalk and with the other it was grout, like in the shower. And my aunt only ever drank when she was pregnant – She had wild cravings for beer and lobster – and her kids all turned out fine too. Mind you that wasn’t her “getting drunk” (maybe tipsy) but it was at least weekly.
I think it’s called picca. My friends mom wanted to drink water from a clay pot and eat ashes from the fireplace. Also wanting to at ice can mean low iron…
I craved ice like crazy with the first two. But the last one, where I was eating tons of organic produce, not at all.
I also craved Pine-Sol with the middle pregnancy. I ate lime Otter Pops instead, because they taste the way Pine-Sol smells. Still don’t know what the hell that was about…
Of course sober people neglect their children. But the simple facts are that substance abusers of any kind are more likely to neglect/abuse children. Im not just a sheltered housewife who feels I know better than others, I used to be a legal aid lawyer and work with Childrens Services. I’ve seen the drunken mother who produces the neglected FAC baby, I’ve seen the alcoholic mother who produces child after child with behavioural issues.
Its simple numbers that you see in reality. Just like every stepfather does not molest step children but MOST children in the area I worked who were abused were abused by a stepfather/ mothers boyfriend. And what did I learn from this? 1. Don’t get drunk while pregnant. 2. don’t get into relationships lightly if you have kids and 3. substance abusers of all kinds do not deserve to keep thieir children because not only is their judgement relationship wise skewed, but an addict will always choose their addiction over others. Including kids.
OK, admission here. Eons ago when I had my kids, I smoked through both pregnancies. What’s even more disturbing thinking back now, is that my OB and OB nursed smoked in the actual examination room. Smoking was permitted in the outer waiting room also. Just the way it was. Thank God I had two healthy boys. Coffee, sure. No alcohol at all and no litter boxes. (at least the last two things were addressed.)
What I would be more afraid of in today’s times are the plastics that we eat out of, especially microwaving in them, along with all of the other toxins we mass produce everyday. I could generally say that anything we wouldn’t put in our bodies pregnant, we shouldn’t be putting in there anyway.
The advice flip-flops every so often, no woman in history has had a perfect pregnancy according to all the conflicting advice given throughout the past several decades. Back when I was a fetus doctors used to recommend pregnant women drink Guinness for the iron. After that came the no alcohol at all rule. Now most doctors recommend the occasional small glass of wine later in pregnancy to help women relax and get some sleep. Fetuses are resilient little parasites, using a little common sense goes a long way towards keeping them safe.
Common sense is right. (but you would not believe what I’ve seen people think common sense is!) :)
Common sense: less common than you might think.
Hehe. The other day my husband said, “If common sense was common, it would just be called sense.”
I did everything right during my pregnancy (at least the current equivalent of what is right) and my son was still born 5 weeks premature. No reason that the docs could find. Now I am told to take an aspirin daily, where before I was told aspirin was extremely verbotem.
Moderation is the key to everything. I probably won’t drink a full glass of any alcohol, but I will take a sip of my husbands beer with my dinner. I wish I had relaxed more with my first pregnancy, and taken the time to enjoy it rather than worry so much about all the rules.
Guinness is good for you.
Hey everyone, just wanted to let everyone know about what happened to my family recently (hopefully as a warning to some?).
My sister was pregnant with her second child, but decided to drink wine throughout her pregnancy. She hadn’t had alcohol the previous pregnancy, but thought it would be okay to be slightly lenient with this pregnancy, as she had already experienced one before and it went fine. However, last month, she gave birth prematurely by several weeks. We lost the baby, and she almost lost her life also after losing so much blood.
Please, do NOT drink during your pregnancy. Is the risk really worth it?
WAIT ONE MINUTE HERE-
You can’t eat brie when you are pregnant??
Pregnancy sounds like the worst thing ever. Seriously. No coffee, no smoking, no alcohol, no sushi, no over the counter medication, and all the weight gain.
Ugh.
I went 9 months craving a bloody rare steak, a gin and tonic, poached eggs and prosciutto and brie.
It was awful.
Pregnancy is pretty close to the worst thing ever. I mean – you do end up with a cute little baby at the end (if everything goes well), but being pregnant sucks. I am on my second go around, and this is it. No more!
No Brie, no soft cheese of any kind, no alcohol, no raw fish, no fish on the mercury list, no lunchmeat, no hotdogs, no rare meat, no softcooked eggs, no blue cheese salad dressing, limited caffeine (depending on your doc – my doc said one coke or one coffee a day), no fast food. Then out of all the food that is left in the world, figure out the 2 things that do not cause you heartburn and indigestion.
I do like the baby at the end. I don’t want to sound completely bitter and angry. :)
Ok, could someone please explain, what it is with the Brie cheese? I never heard of this before.
Listeria bacteria if it’s not pasturized
Most cheeses made in the US are pasteurized. I should’ve said “no imported brie” in my earlier post. But I like imported cheese, dammit!
Ok, just talked to my boss, whos been in Arla (big dairy company) for years. And now I feel a little bit better informed. It’s not that big an issue because there are almost no cheeses that aren’t pasteurized here. So I guess it’s not that big a deal. She said that around 5% of all cheeses aren’t pasteurized (same as in the US) and they are usually some traditional and old-fashioned ones.
Brie is a soft cheese, it can have mold in it that you cannot see. You are just way more susceptable when you are pregnant to things.
I ate the same dinner (take out pizza from a new place) my husband did, I got food poisoning, he didn’t.
But there are so many cheeses with all kinds of mold. I’m sorry, but is this an American thing? Are there any European mums here, who stopped eating brie and/or blue cheese?
I don’t mean to say that you guys are wrong, really (I’ve never been preggers, so I might just be totally uninformed!). I just never heard of this before (and my sis just gave birth 2 months ago). I will have to ask my collegues tomorrow, one of them had a job in the dairy industry for 15 years, she must now :).
It isn’t mold that is the concern, it’s Listeria. Soft imported cheeses are often non-pasturized. There are varieties of Brie that ARE pasturized and would be safe. Check the package. Here is some info on Listeria, straight from the CDC website-
How can you reduce your risk for listeriosis?
General recommendations:
Thoroughly cook raw food from animal sources, such as beef, pork, or poultry.
Wash raw vegetables thoroughly before eating.
Keep uncooked meats separate from vegetables and from cooked foods and ready-to-eat foods.
Avoid unpasteurized (raw) milk or foods made from unpasteurized milk.
Wash hands, knives, and cutting boards after handling uncooked foods.
Consume perishable and ready-to-eat foods as soon as possible
Recommendations for persons at high risk, such as pregnant women and persons with weakened immune systems, in addition to the recommendations listed above:
Do not eat hot dogs, luncheon meats, or deli meats, unless they are reheated until steaming hot.
Avoid getting fluid from hot dog packages on other foods, utensils, and food preparation surfaces, and wash hands after handling hot dogs, luncheon meats, and deli meats.
Do not eat soft cheeses such as feta, Brie, and Camembert, blue-veined cheeses, or Mexican-style cheeses such as queso blanco, queso fresco, and Panela, unless they have labels that clearly state they are made from pastuerized milk.
Do not eat refrigerated pâtés or meat spreads. Canned or shelf-stable pâtés and meat spreads may be eaten.
Do not eat refrigerated smoked seafood, unless it is contained in a cooked dish, such as a casserole. Refrigerated smoked seafood, such as salmon, trout, whitefish, cod, tuna or mackerel, is most often labeled as “nova-style,” “lox,” “kippered,” “smoked,” or “jerky.” The fish is found in the refrigerator section or sold at deli counters of grocery stores and delicatessens. Canned or shelf-stable smoked seafood may be eaten.
I am sorry to disappoint those who think the occassional drink while pregnant is OK. Recent research (released this week) indicates that even one drink in the early stages of pregnancy can have a damaging effect on the foetus. It may not affect every baby but who would want to take the risk?
Every time a study is published, another one comes out a year or 3 later. It is just to confuse us, I swear.
Use common sense.
If it could potentially harm you, it could possibly harm the baby.
I take exception to nearly everything mentioned – yes, even the kitty litter. If you have had a cat for any length of time, guess what? You have been exposed and probably have antibodies against toxoplasmosis. However, I would have to say that you can keep that quiet and use this time to train your partner to do litter duty.
I smoked with all 5 of mine, I even had a glass of wine on occasion with the first 2. Their birth weights?
7# 11 oz
8# 2 oz
9#9 oz
8# even
7# 12 oz
None were premature, none have any health issues, not so much as a peanut allergy or hay fever. I wish I hadn’t smoked, but then again, I wish I had never smoked in the first place.
The point is this: You have to use common sense. If you did something before you were pregnant, chances are good that you can do it while you are pregnant. Unless you don’t want to. Then it is the best excuse EVER.
Obviously, drugs must be okayed by your OB/GYN, but I think people need to relax and not get their panties in a bunch every time a new study comes out.
I had never seen someone use # to represent pounds before.
It makes total sense, as that is the ‘pound’ key, but it confused the hell out of me for a minute.
I thought you were just having trouble counting your children.
LOL
Sometimes, yes.
My sister quit smoking when she got pregnant, but continued to drink a glass of wine almost every other day while she was pregnant with my nephew. We got in HUGE fights about it and it caused a giant rift in our family. Then the kid came out and he’s not only perfectly fine, but the awesomest kid I’ve ever met. Meh.
[...] rich or poor, white or black or otherwise, are far less likely to die as a result of pregnancy, the need for quality medical care for everyone is extremely apparent. While perhaps the recently passed healthcare bill is far from perfect and way too generous to [...]