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Here on Zelda Lily, we do not discriminate. We’d covered a previous story regarding the discrimination of women who are inked (which, some agreed to be bogus and some agreed with the dress code) that were kept out of a night club and now we tackle a much, ah, excuse, ”bigger” topic on the horizon of nightclub “keep-outs”.
A new club in LA opens its doors to a larger-than-life clientele. The club, known as Club Bounce, caters to the over-sized individuals looking to cut loose and have some fun or who are just seeking to meet new people.
Bounce-frequenter Vanessa Jones speaks up on the topic of standard nightclub discrimination:
“When you’re not what they consider ideal, you know, and you’re out there trying to get your dance on at those other places, you get the looks, the stares. But not here. Everything’s accepted here,” says Vanessa Gray of Long Beach, an attractive 30-something woman who acknowledges jovially that after giving birth to three children, “I’ve got a little more meat on my bones.”
The movement for acceptance of people who follow totally different walks has been in effect for decades at this point. Where society prizes women for being a size 00 and men for being ripped and cut like Billy Blanks (if he’s even still relevant), I can understand that people of a more overweight stature are simply branching out into their own and embracing themselves for what they are and I personally think that’s great.
However. However.
I do have a few problems with this scenario.
Primarily, the “stares” and “looks” that the aforementioned Vanessa speaks of when visiting “regular” clubs is a main concern of mine. That bullshit has to stop. Really. We, as a society, need to rise above the high school cover-the-mouth-with-the-back-of-your-hand-to-detract-from-your-laughter type of humor is so fucking asinine and juvenile. I’m sorry; did I say high school? I meant fucking elementary school. I cannot fathom that this shit continues so long after people finish their primary school careers.
In addition to my first concern, separating the “fat” from the “thin” or “ideal” as Vanessa states, is only perpetuating poor behavior. In retrospect, are there gay clubs? Yes. Do I have a problem with that? Generally, no, I suppose not. Then again, homosexuality is a lifestyle and internal preference rather than a physical appearance issue. This statement, after pondering its meaning for a couple of hours, brings me to contradict my own point by questioning it. Should there be gay clubs? If we really consider this notion, it’s really no better than or understandable as “fat” clubs. In both cases, there are individuals who seek the comfort of “their own”, whether it be due to external circumstances such as discrimination binding them together or seeking this comfort as some sort of internally-felt respite. Is it the fault of the homosexual person or the fat person? If the particular case states that they are to be excommunicated into finding solace in mutual togetherness, then no. That’s where external stimuli comes into play and these groups of people are made to feel as if they were outcasts. However, on the flip side, if an overweight person or a homosexual person were never persecuted by their peers, why would they, themselves, go into a “hiding” of sort and cut themselves off from individuals or groups of people of a different sub-culture?
The bottom line is: are people who consider themselves “different” from the “norm” shunning “normal” people or is it the opposite? Regardless of which, I consider both options to be a detriment to healthy societal growth.
Tell me your thoughts.
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What next? Clubs just for blondes/brunettes/redheads/etc.? Clubs only for people over/under a certain height?
Sorry, but this is just silly.
Except that fat chicks are routinely turned away at the door from most clubs. What’s bad about a club they know they’re going to be able to get into?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Why not try to get clubs to treat people fairly, instead of doing EXACTLY what they condemn other people for. This doesn’t empower them, this makes them just as bad as the people turning them away, except worse, because they are filthy hypocrites in addition.
Where does it say thin people can’t get in? There are clubs like that in my area and I know a group of girls that go together. Some of them are thin.
It doesn’t, bit whoever wrote the article HEAVILY implied it, and based on the demographics, I wouldn’t be surprised.
This is exactly why I refuse to take this whole concept of ‘wah, society hates fat people’ seriously. If bigger people want to be seen as normal, they should stop this whole ‘THIN PEOPLE SUCK, EVERYONE HATES US, WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A SUPER SPECIAL FAT PEOPLE CLUB SO WE CAN DISCRIMINATE AGAINST YOU, HA HA’ bullshit. And you know, act like normal people. I’ve been to nightclubs with heavier girls. And guess what? The ones who don’t sit around bitching and wallowing end up having just as much fun as the thin girls because it’s much more unattractive to wallow in your imperfections than to have imperfections. The thing is, bigger women seem to be into this ’society is oppressing me’ thing more than women with, say, big noses or small breasts.
Also, this is the exact same as black-frequented nightclubs that do the paper bag test.
What is the paper bag test?
I haven’t heard of that test. I’ve heard of the “chew your arm off” test, though.
Didnt’ know either, but I looked it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_bag_test
They hold up a basic brown paper grocery bag. If your skin is the same shade or lighter, you get in, if your skin is darker, fuck you, basically. The fact that this is common at black-frequented clubs makes it all the more insipid, because I tend to fail the test, and I am actually pretty light skinned.
I think the big difference is why you have a nightclub in the first place. Sure, there’s dancing and drinking and whatever else you do at a nightclub. But realistically, picking up desirable people is a reasonable part of it.
I can see justification for gay clubs, given that. Gay people are not restricted from regular clubs. Straight people are allowed into gay clubs. But if you go to a gay club, you can put a guess on the sexuality of a person you are dancing with, and feel more confident about acting on that.
Actually, I think gay clubs are largely historical. They come from a time, not too long ago, where it simply wouldn’t have been acceptable for two guys to go out and dance together and do whatever else is okay for a guy and a girl to do in the corner. Even these days the acceptance is questionable, depending on where you are. and let alone trying to hit on someone you don’t know. That would be pretty unsafe.
So gay people started gay clubs. and by the time society started to decide that it would be okay for a couple of guys to come to the club together, they said “actually, we much prefer the culture we’ve now developed in our own club. Thanks, but no thanks. come by and visit anytime you want to see!”.
I think this is more comparable to workout clubs like Curves that cater solely to women, usually the out of shape ones. Some women don’t feel comfortable working out in front of gym bunnies and buff guys and some fat people aren’t going to feel comfortable dancing in front of thin people because they look different and move differently. Gay clubs exist more to focus the dating pool; if someone is in a gay club then they probably don’t mind being hit on by someone of the same sex.
It’s not something I’d go for myself; I’d never go to Curves and I’d never go to this club. So what if there are people around me who are more physically attractive than me? I don’t consider that an issue. Then again I was never really in to the club scene, I think I’ve been to 3 clubs in my entire life, and I was never out there looking for a partner.
I don’t know, I’m very much undecided. Maybe I’ll form a more coherent opinion after coffee.
And THIS is the reason fat people ‘aren’t accepted’ in society. Not because the rest of us discriminate against them randomly, but because they sit around complaining that they aren’t comfortable having to deal with people who look different from them. Wah wah, I am so uncomfortable dancing in front of skinny people. That’s the same attitude as saying ‘I am not comfortable around gay people’ or ‘I am not comfortable around peole of a different race.’
It’s not the same thing. Being uncomfortable with people of a different race or sexual orientation is just racism and homophobia. Being uncomfortable sweating and panting after 10 minutes walking on the treadmill while the gym bunny on the next machine is barely glowing after running 3 miles is a natural feeling of inadequacy. Same thing with dancing to a lesser extent.
Blaming fat people for discrimination against fat people is like blaming black people for racism. Sure they contribute to it but they didn’t start it and they can’t end it alone.
I am not blaming fat people for creating the discrimination, I’m blaming fat people for not doing a damn thing about it, making it worse, then continuing to complain about how inferior they feel, however, IS their fault. When black people were discriminated against, yes, some people thought that black people shouldn’t have even bothered to try to branch out, but in retrospect, we know that that didn’t work at all. If you can’t deal with seeing someone who is more physically fit than you, you don’t fucking deserve self-esteem. I think that the clubs discriminating against bigger women should change, yes. I don’t think this, however, is doing anything but make people like me dislike big people more. Instead of me thinking ‘oh, that’s not that attractive,’ I think ‘what a pack of self-absorbed, bigoted assholes. No WONDER no one likes them.’
I am a Fat Woman I have never cared about dancing in front of average sized people nor have I sat around whining about them. However I have been at clubs and have and overheard who does that fat b…h think she is dancing with him. I have also received the ever famous back hand compliment of you have such a pretty face you should loose some weight so I can take you out. Do I have a case of the wah wah, no! I continued partying because I was cute (my daddy and my man told me so) and I could dance so I was not lacking for partners. I will say that more times than not I asked my partners to dance and not the other way around but I all ways had a good time. It would have been better on my ego if there had been a Club Bounce back in my party days it is always more effective dancing with someone who enjoys the way you look as well as the way you dance.
I do not see a problem with this. A large part of clubs is picking up (which may explain why I don’t go) and if fat people and fat lovers find it easier to narrow down their potentials, why not?
Taking an issue with this seems like a waste of energy. Why care?
I don’t think that clubs designed for bigger people are that big of a deal. Chances are, in any given city that has one there will be 20 “regular” clubs to offset it, so it’s not like a skinny person is being pushed out of the club scene (if that’s what you’re into).
Same thing with gay bars/clubs. If you’re not gay, it’s not like you don’t have a bunch of other clubs to go to instead.
I can’t say I’ve ever seen an obese person turned away from a nightclub in my life. The club would be too afraid of being sued (and rightly so).
So I call bull-plop on the whole “oh, we’re not allowed with the thin people, we are SHUNNED I tell you!” thing. BULL-PLOP.
I’ve seen heavier people turned away while thinner ones are let in, but the bouncer usually makes some vague reference to dress codes.
There is nothing wrong with a group — any group — choosing to self-segregate to a degree. To say that gay clubs, or black clubs, or fat clubs, or BDSM clubs exist due to persecution is at best a half truth. It’s more a case of the birds of a feather rule – people prefer to socialize with those that share their form, tastes, and interests. When you go out to a club, or really to any social gathering, you’re trying to have a good time. Some people are more comfortable having that good time in a certain kind of atmosphere. What could be wrong with that?
Even if the participants choose to patronize a club out of fear of persecution when among the body public, is there something wrong with the nature of that choice? I agree with our columnist that it’s stupid that our social worlds are so fickle as to make people feel they need this, but I see no problem with people choosing not to patronize clubs where they’ve felt uncomfortable. Opening a club like this seems like good business sense.
The difference is, gay clubs and black clubs don’t bar straight people or white people, they just target gays or blacks. There is a difference between a target and the only allowed group. The only reason anyone thinks this is okay because thin people are an ‘acceptable target.’ You bar fat people, everyone has a hissy fit, but barring thin people is empowering.
They don’t bar thin people, it’s not like they’re weighing people on the way in. Apparently about 75% of their female customers and 25% of their male customers are overweight.
Ah. So they make it difficult for thin WOMEN to get in.
Basically, they do the exact same thing they bitch about the ‘normal’ clubs for doing in opposite and tout it as a success.
For the record, black and gay-oriented clubs were formed out of ACTUAL discrimination, and not people whining about how much they hate having to deal with seeing someone who fits the typical stereotype of attractive.
Who says they’re making it difficult? I imagine most of the thin women there are with a fat friend. A group of thin women are unlikely to want to hit the fat chick club by themselves. They probably get a fair few guys in thinking that fat chicks are easy too.
There is actual discrimination against fat women when it comes to clubs. Not the kind that’s likely to get you killed but the kind that’s likely to prevent them from getting in to the club.
Did I ever deny that there was discrimination against fat women in clubs? Actually, I directly stated that there WAS. My issue is that this is making the situation WORSE. Big women sit around bitching and whining about how they aren’t accepted, but do NOTHING to make themselves appear normal and acceptable, but instead, make themselves look MORE unappealing. In addition to having a less socially acceptable figure, this makes fat women come off as shallow, self-absobed, whining, and discriminatory. Someone who can’t have self-esteem in front of someone who doesn’t look like themselves or may or may not be silently judging them is TWENTY TIMES more shallow, stupid, and unworthy of self-esteem than the silent judgers. What needs to be done is to take action against clubs that are actively discriminating against fat women, NOT to make it seem like fat women live in their own world of super specialness. This is not a demand to be treated equally, it is a demand to be treated like a speshul snoflake. And the percentage difference between large women and large men should clue you in: this club is not cutting down on shallowness, it is catering to a group of equally shallow men who just happen to have a different fetish. Them being ‘chubby chasers’ does not make them less shallow, actually, despite what the people crying about ‘Real Women Have Curves’ may want the world to believe.
“Big women sit around bitching and whining about how they aren’t accepted, but do NOTHING to make themselves appear normal and acceptable”
Do you even realize that you just called fat people unacceptable?
Syd calling someone else a whiner? Pot meet Kettle. So we uncover yet another layer of Syd’s immense bigotry.
No, because I didn’t. You read into an implication that was not there. The complaint is always that ‘we aren’t accepted in society.’ Yet, this group does nothing but encourage a negative image of big women: women who are too stupid, shallow, and self-absorbed to be able to deal with someone looking different than them.
Bullshit. There are plenty of gay/black clubs that won’t let straights or whites in. It’s been in the news here. You want to have your cake it too. You want to be able to whine discrimination at the drop of a hat and use it as an excuse for every personal failure but if someone else makes a gripe all of a sudden you’re Miss empowerment. You’re a disgusting bigot.
and eat it*
Oops!
Who are you? And every single case of such a thing is BROUGHT TO COURT. It is ILLEGAL to do that, and they are not PRAISED for it.
I’m with Ladybluejazz. As a (formerly) large woman, I was discriminated against, not let in places, etc. I didn’t let it bug me and lead a happy, (whining-free) large life. To say that obese people aren’t discriminated against is wrong. I know this all the more now that I am within “normal” weight range. My body has changed, but not my attitude or confidence level and now the same people/places want to include me.
Do not mistake people creating awareness of this problem as whining. Nor do I see that they are preventing anyone of any size from entering their club.
To compare the ‘discrimination’ of an obese person to the discrimination that racial minorities or homosexuals have endured, IS wrong, and absolutely disgusting. Period.
Do minorities have to buy two seats on an airplane? Obese people do. And look how many people make fat jokes and think nothing about the person’s feelings. If blackface isn’t funny then why is fat so amusing to you? For someone whose made a cottage industry out of whining about every little slight Syd you sure don’t have much sensitivity to others.
fat people have to sometimes buy two seat so their fat doesn’t pour over onto me during a flight. I should not lose my space just because you are obese. do you know how tortuous it is to sit in between two enormous people on a long flight? I shudder at the thought.
I imagine it’s pretty horrible to sit next to you as well with your anorexia breath.
Um, minorities don’t take up TWO AIRPLANE SEATS. No one said ‘fat people have to buy two seats because no one wants to sit next to them because they’re icky,’ it’s because otherwise they are ROBBING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS OF THEIR SEATS. Although someone who thinks calling anyone who isn’t obese ‘anorexic’ and comparing a totally logical procedure to enslavement or random violence, I doubt you have the mental capacity to differentiate.
Going to have to agree with thatLisa and Syd. Minorities don’t actually invade the space of other people on flights. Sorry, but people don’t like to have their personal space invaded.
No argument, true.
But I have been assaulted by people’s horrific cigarette breath, general foul body odor, ear drum shattering snoring, demonic children, etc.
Personally, I would much rather sit beside an obese person. They are all too aware of their “space” and take pains not to intrude on yours, as a rule.
Erin have you ever seen the way black people sit? They take up space even when they don’t need to and they never fucking shut up. Don’t sit near them in a movie theatre.
What makes any type of discrimination better than another type?
Your bigotry is showing.
From the Club Bounce website:
Q. Do I have to be plus size to come to Club Bounce?
A. This is such a silly question but people have asked this. The answer is of course NO! Club Bounce is a night club of size acceptance, which means everyone is welcome! Big, small, short, tall, black, white, fat, skinny and everything in between. As soon as you walk in the Club you will know this to be true and you will feel the positive vibe and accepting atmosphere.
This is in no way a case of discrimination. At all.
It is simply a night club that advertises itself to an oversize market.
If you want to deny that market exists, then you’re a fool. If you want to suggest that market shouldn’t exist, well that’s a whole other story.
And Mother’s Bar in Chicago OFFICIALLY allows black people to patronize it.
Syd, you never fail to disappoint me.
Over the past few months that I have been regularly visiting this site, I have perhaps seen one time that your response to a post was positive or funny.
You are absolutely unbelievable in your ability to make every post somehow about you, usually slighting you.
It’s old. It’s stupid. Grow up.
I agree. Why is she always whining about herself? This is Zelda Lily not Syd’s poor horrible life as a biracial self loathing outcast. You need Prozac Syd.
i really don’t think this should be an issue at all- the nightclub that is. Many nightclubs only let in people who are a certain level of attractiveness. Many nightclubs only let in people who are dressed up to a certain degree. If the premise of this club is for overweight people to be able to get into a club that is for them specifically and not have to queue up feeling terrified that they will be humiliated with a hand in the face and a “not you”, then that’s a good thing. The issue of overweight people in society is not really related to this- people will always naturally criticise or look down on the overweight because it’s not a “life choice” any more than smoking or being an alcoholic is a life choice. It is something you may or may not be able to do something about, but it is not perfectly normal, it is bad for your health. And any overweight person who argues it is a life choice- well, they aren’t the ones feeling afraid to dance in front of skinny women. The rest would be delighted to lose that weight, so they shouldn’t be lumped in as a minority group because being overweight is a negative thing and should not be celebrated. The size zero versus having a few extra pounds argument is a different issue- being 2 sizes above anorexic is not fat, in fact it’s healthier, and that needs to be changed in peoples attitudes and in the media. But there are a good few pounds between “a bit of extra fat” and overweight.
let them have their club- I dont see anything wrong with it. The private clubs we should be fighting are the kkk, racist or intolerant clubs and not ones that found a gap in the market and decided to cater to a certain public.
DOES SYD EVER SHUT UP?