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Kate Gosselin Caught Spanking Daughter
220 Comments | Posted by Sasha in Kate Gosselin, Leah Gosselin, spanking
This promo for The Insider ran tonight — it features paparazzi video of Kate Gosselin spanking her daughter Leah, and of course the Internet is already throwing a fit. The war against Kate Gosselin is the hottest thing going right now! (Check out the photo of last week’s newsstand I put on my Twitter.)
Opinions on the parental practice of spanking vary widely (although Ashley wrote a fantastic piece a couple weeks ago about the sexual practice of spanking). I gotta say, this video doesn’t look like abuse to me; it looks like a mother disciplining her child. But I don’t have children and I know some people feel quite differently. So, moms and dads out there, weigh in.
You do NOT disciplin your child by hitting them. NEVER EVER!
We do live in 2009 now right? How can you even ask that question?!
Do you have kids?
Yes a five year old boy.
It is the right to each parent to discipline their child how they see fit. It takes a real dumbass to A not know how to spell discipline and B. Put your parenting views on others. Not saying to beat your kids, however since kids these days don’t have the fear of getting an ass whoopin’ they are out there behaving like idiots in society, and thinking that there are no repercussions. So Kattis get your head out of your ass!!
Wow you called me a dumbass and told me to get my head out of my ass.. How very sweet of you. Your sure know how to best get your points across.
My spelling is not in anyway perfect I know that, english is not my first language, I do how ever think you understood what I wanted to say anyway? Did you not?
You really need to learn how to behave on the internet and while talking to others.
I completely believe parents should discipline their children using other methods, say, by a time-out or a grounding. However, sometimes parents lose it. My parents never hit me, and I don’t have kids, but I feel slightly bad for Kate. She has a cheating husband, eight small kids, and she probably cracked. All the pressure must have seriously gotten to her. So while I don’t condone hitting of any kind, I still do feel pretty bad for her.
Children under a certain age don’t understand right from wrong and don’t understand what you SAY to them when you tell them something is wrong, because they are just too young. Sometimes, spanking is necessary.
People that dont spank their children and then don’t have the ability to threaten their child with “if you do that again, i’ll spank you” ALWAYS end up having bratty, uncontrolable children.
(isn’t my genarlisation annoying? so don’t generalise and say never.)
This is the reason we have a generation of children who do and say whatever they like without fear of consequences. Of course you can use your hand to swat your child’s bottom.
I actually grew up in and out of foster homes where I’d been placed due to abuse in my home. I think I have an adequate perspective on what is abusive and what is not.
I believe you have the right to raise your children as you see fit (even if it means you will ask them what they want to eat instead of making them eat what is for dinner and allow them to say “huh?” when they are asked a question.) Not all hitting is abusive. It just isn’t.
Is it even legal in USA to do so???
Cause here in Sweden it sure as h-l isnt!
I don’t think it’s that bad. Why does everyone get their panties in a twist over this? My sister pops her kids like that, more as an attention-getter than a discipline. Like my nephew once threw a matchbox car at her while driving so she pulled over and popped him. He never did it again.
I feel so bad for Kate. She doesn’t deserve all this horrible publicity.
She’s popped her kids in other episodes, too. So why is it a problem now?
I was spanked as a child, and it taught me to obey my parents. And I’m from America. As long as you’re not abusing the child, a little swat on the butt will teach them that they have to listen to you and to stop being bratty. I think that spaking is the last resort and you should only do it if other forms of disciple aren’t working. Sometimes they just won’t listen until they do get spanked.
When does it go from being a spanking to abuse? Where is the line?
One hit two? How hard you hit? What?
Like someone said before, you just have to pop them one, and they’ll get it.
And when it doesnt work the first time?
Then try a different method of discipline.
When it bruises.
So it ok to hit a child as long as it doesnt leave marks? Listen to what you are saying.
yeah, it’s only considered abuse if you leave a mark on their skin larger than a pinprick.
the line is when you do it out of anger and irrationality and not as a calm, calculated discipline measure. angry outbursts that involve hitting are not okay. calmly telling your child they’re going to get a spanking if they don’t stop and then following through is not abuse.
<3
If you hit hard enough to leave a bruise, that’s one thing, but to give a light smack is nothing. I was spanked once. They never had to do it again.
The line is when your children are being hurt. Only horrible people hurt their children.
Do you think there’s really no point at which a stable, sane adult can spank a child to get their attention and not fly into an abusive rage?
it is NOT a way to educate children
So all of you who think its ok are just as fine with a man hitting his wife to? Cause I mean if she aint listning that seems like a great way to get attention right??
No? Well dont hit children either then!
I think I’m talking to you on Evil Beet too. And like I said on there, its not the man’s job to raise a woman to be a responsible adult. But it is the parent’s job to raise their children, and some people discipline their kids by spanking them. Its not your place to decide how a person disciplines their children.
So it legal in USA to hit a child?
Yes. Spanking is legal. Child abuse is (of course) not. The government in America isn’t trying to control how we raise our children. Yet.
There is a line, though the law doesn’t define it.
I feel like I’m arguing a losing battle. You’re going to say “it’s not okay!” until you’re blue in the face. But when reasoning with your 5 year old doesn’t work because they don’t understand you, don’t expect MY tax-payer dollars to pay for their counseling, or legal fees.
It’s not up to us to tell Kate how to raise her kids. I don’t think she’s doing anything wrong. I’ve not once seen something that made me think she’s a horrible person. I don’t think she and I would get along, because we’re just not compatible people. My sister’s husband and I are the same way.
Then I feel truly sorry for the children of America. Thank God I live in a country where children are protected against violent as far as its possible.
Jagger I have a five year old boy, and yes if I have to turn blue I will.
And also a five year old understands most things you say.
well then good for your son, but every parent has different discipline. you may not spank. spanks dont hurt. slaps do. kate can do what she wants because she definately does NOT deserve all of this. she started the show to explain how her life is, not how she wants to be stalked by paparazzi and blamed for spanking her child. many parents spank their chidren. the only reason why kate is being targeted, is because she is famous. you dont see child abusers on the front of every magazine, do you?
I don’t believe it’s the same thing.
It does not encourage hitting in later years, before you go that route. I was popped as a kid, and I never hit anyone in anger in my whole life.
It should be a last resort, yes, as someone said. It’s child abuse when it leaves a mark. All it takes is one single pop and that’s all you need. Repeated, actual, HITTING is wrong.
I love how alot of you wants to pretend like a spanking or popping isnt a hit. It is. And it doesnt matter what you call it.
How would YOU discipline a child? Is raising your voice abuse because you’re verbally abusing the child?
Yeah, we know its a hit. But it’s not a mean hit intended to hurt the child. Its a hit intended to show the child that what he/she is doing is wrong and that they shouldn’t do it again. And most likely, they won’t.
Jagger well I dont think yelling is a very nice thing either.
I try to use talking as much as I can when it comes to discipline, so far Im doing pretty good.
Not intended to hurt? Well.. Erhm.. If the pain isnt what your after why do it?
And are you sure that one hit does it, cause I think the parent who cross the line and hit once will be alot more likely to do it again, and again.
if a man hitted a women so she would listen it would be a completely different issue, wouldn’t it??!
then think of a child, a DEFENSELESS kid!
Well, if we’re talking about spanking on the butt (which this video shows), then actually your point doesn’t work, because I love it when my husband spanks me. =) The fact of the matter is that, although we humans are separated from animals in many ways, we still have many of the same behaviors, especially when it comes to raising kids who are not yet rational beings. Animals use physical pain to discipline their young’uns (think of mommy dogs), and it works. Though I don’t condone beating a child or using a belt or hitting them in the face, a spank on the butt (which really doesn’t hurt that much but might shock them a bit) when everything else has failed is perfectly fine.
YOU are a nut job.. Kattis listen hitting a grown person is assault. The person who spanks their child that they are legally responsible for child is discipline. You can try other options first and that is not the first option, that is after the kid has been warned repeatedly and when children are that young sometimes that is all they understand. You can explain til u are blue in the face. They don’t get it. It is the parents right to discipline not abuse and there is a big difference.
Child abuse is also defined as “Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse, or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm”. What if Leah had tried to run out in the street and Kate popped her so she’d realize how severe that was and that she’d never do it again? We don’t know the back story behind the swat.
Nope it wouldnt be ok to hit her even then. I think I can see a mouth on Kate, she could have talked to her about it, if she had in fact been trying to run out in the road, a really upset parent telling her to never ever do it again probobly does the trick fine without hurting her.
seriously kattis, jagger makes a good point. what if leah got a mosquitoe bite and starting crying so kate hit the mosquitoe off? the possibilties are endless. you cant just assume that they are abusing their child.
That’s not true either. You pop them, then explain why you did it and what caused it.
Just talking won’t work. I have a cousin where her mother thought it was a good idea to just try to reason with a 2 year old, and when the child threw a fit, her plan was to ignore it and let her “scream it out”. I fear she’s become an ax murderer now, seeing how she was as a kid and a teenager. She was kicked off her soccer team at 9 because she threatened to kill the coach and all the team.
I’m not saying a spank would have solved this. I’m saying reasoning with children who don’t have those areas of the brain developed won’t work. They understand the swat, they understand when you talk to them and tell them that running out in the street would be even scarier and hurt more than that little swat.
A two year old no, you cant really talk to them, but then again you shouldnt leave a two year old alone by the road.
I think rules and sticking to them when the child get s older will work, the nine year old threatning her coach should have been grounded and more, I can think of alot of thing to do instead of hitting.
If she had threatened someone like that at 4, should she have gotten popped? Yes, absolutely. You NEVER threaten people like that. I believe that if she had be popped, she never would have done it again.
Oh yes, because hitting a child who threatens violence is just the way to teach them that violence is wrong. I see you berating Kattis for not looking at both sides of the debate but you’re doing exactly the same thing. Of course you’re also wrong so there is a difference.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, Gilles Marini is HOTT (he was in the video. This isn’t just a random comment. Ha).
Alright, sorry, but spanking was a VERY good way to get my ass straight (no pun intended). It was only done once or twice and then threats was all it took to get me to stop misbehaving. I also grew up with verbal abuse (and even as an adult, I still get it) from one side of the parentals, and that hurt me and still does more than spanking ever did. Not that this is the same as Kate Gossilin trying to discipline her children or anyone else’s story, but seriously everyone is jumping on the bash-kate-gossilin media train whether or not it’s valid. Can anyone really make an informed opinion/decision on whether her choice for disciplining her child is sound?
That is sad. Being raised by threats of violence. If you dont listen I will spank you…. Sad.
It works. Some kids need it. You must be a hippy, believing that just kind words and organic food are all kids need to become balanced, well rounded adults. Good thing you’re in Sweden, then my tax-payer dollars won’t be paying for their prison food or their 5 kids by 5 baby-daddy welfare.
Lol that was fun. Read up about prison in USA and Sweden, you guys have alot more issues then us. Strange isnt since you are free to hit your children. We who dont dont have as much crime… Weird… And no Im not a hippy. And no we dont eat as much organic food as we should, kind words and love can take you along way. But I never said kind words where all it takes, as I said rules, and rutines is great for raising children, there is no need to hit any child.
ZOMG, Sweden has like a tiny population. You can’t compare it to the US. And can I point out that f-ing socialism is the reason for the lower crime rate. Sweden, like many other European countries, has a lower crime rate because they actually house and feed their poor, giving them incentive to commit crimes. It has NOTHING to do with hitting your kids. It has everything to do with giving them proper care and schooling which is paid for by very high taxes.
Wow. Sara, I completely agree with you on the crime thing.
The other thing that’s awesome about Sweden is that families are important. Women get a ton of maternity leave and families take government sponsored holidays. All that togetherness can have a big impact on how children turn out. More so than whether or not they got a spanking or two while they were growing up…
Sorry, but they were not threats of violence, they were threats of spanking. Big difference. I think my parents did the right thing in those situations.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck it probably is a duck…
I don’t think you ever said “Rules and Routines is great”. I agree, they are, but what happens when your kid decides to curse at you, or throws a fit in the middle of the grocery store?
Americans have more freedoms that other parts of the world, but also more restrictions. But we’re talking about this story, not the difference between countries.
Again, all you see on American television is crap like this. Your perception of us is skewed by these images. Not everyone who was popped as a kid turns out to be a serial killer or drug dealer.
“If you don’t eat your dinner, you don’t get dessert!” Is that neglect? Is that starvation? No, it’s to get your child to do what you tell them, what they need to do.
“If you walk out in the street again, you’ll get popped again!” I pretty much guarantee you that child will never walk out in the street again. That’s not child abuse, that’s child rearing. That’s raising a child.
If my child curses at me I take away his videogame for a day.
If he throws a fit (is that like a tantrum or something?) cause in does cases I pick him up and go out of the store. Simple as that.
Well sure this isnt good for america but isnt it a fact that your jails are pretty much full? That alot of people get killed.
Im not saying that does people who did that was hit as children, but it does seem to be so pretty often.
And you shouldnt belive all parents who dont hit their childrens is hippys either like you did.
and about the rules I responded to the nine year old you mentioned.
So you will leave out of the store because your child is throwing a fit? Why would you waste your time doing that? You don’t have to spank him right then and there, but if you tell him that you will spank him when you get home if he doesn’t stop, he will most likely stop. And you can resume shopping.
Why I would waste my time? Well cause I know that he dont wanna be carried out again and the next time we are at the store he will behave, and that without me hurting him.
Violence and spanking are not the same thing. Spanking is not a violent act. Can you get that through your think skull? And I say that with all the love and kindness possible.
Apparently not, because she’s not even willing to discuss the other side of this issue.
I have no love or kindness for people like that. You need to see all the angles of a story to fully understand it. But she outright refuses.
It is a act that is supposed to cause pain in the child. So it will learn as you guys so nicely say it.
That is violence.
ehhh Kattis does have a point. Spanking is kind of violent. But her (?) conclusions are confused. She thinks that only one factor is important in making your child into a crazy violent murdering criminal, and that isn’t true.
I don’t think that Kattis gets that when you wap a kid, it’s not hard, it’s more the contact than anything that shocks them out of the tantrum. At least that’s how it worked when it happened to me. Also, apparently the swedish (just making a broad generalization here, which is what she’s doing. I’m aware not all Swedes are close minded) have a very skewed view of how things work in America. There is a huge population. There are not that many jails. There is a strong sense of entitlement among the people, where many believe your worth is measured by how much you have. Gang violence is an issue, and it is glorified in the media, which leads to children thinking that is how they should behave. In most cases due to the high level of consumerism, there has been a shift away from ‘home life’, where the parents are working more and not giving children the attention they need. There is also a fair amount of poverty. All of this leads to an increased crime rate. Not spanking.
So lifting your hand and using it to hit someone isn’t violence if it’s a child? Is it violence if you do the same thing to a non-consenting adult?
I agree with you kattis
Thank you! We don’t know what the back story is for the swat. Did Leah do something? Did she throw a tantrum, or curse, or run out in the street? We can’t say for sure, but THIS is what the media feeds on. THIS is what they want us to think and say! Then they add more fuel to the “Kate is a monster!” fire.
” kattis says:
June 17, 2009 at 12:42 am
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck it probably is a duck…”
Please… that’s NOT what we’re talking about. I swear you must be a hippy, no one thinks like that anymore.
You frustrate me so much! Are you not even WILLING to hear the other side of the issue? You’re so stuck in your ways you won’t even broaden your knowledge of an issue? How closed-minded can you get?
I can see the other side just fine ty.
I still think there is a million other things to do that is better then to hit the child. Is that so hard to understand?
And really going to attack on me as a person, calling me a hippy cause I dont share your ideas of thinking.. Nice.
You sure sound like one. I understand that you don’t like spanking and you’re entitled to that as a human being, but you can’t call people who do monstrous or bad people. They chose to discipline in other ways, and it works for them. You keep saying hitting is wrong, wrong, wrong. I believe in only reasoning with your children is wrong, wrong, wrong. I believe swatting your child is good for them, as a last resort or when they do something REALLY wrong.
Yes, remove your child from the situation if they throw a fit in the store. That’s my first reaction. I repeat my story about my nephew throwing a toy car at my sister while she was driving. What would you have done if your child did that? Called over your shoulder “That was wrong, little child. Please don’t ever do that.” That’s not going to have the same impact as stopping, swatting them, then explaining that “You don’t EVER throw things at Mom while she’s driving! She could get in an accident and then EVERYONE in the car would be hurt!” I was there when this happened, that’s what she said to him. Took him out of his car seat, knelt down to his level so she wasn’t towering over him, and told him why what he did was so bad. He never did it again. He said he was sorry, she hugged and kissed him and said “Thank you for understanding.” How is that so wrong?
I dont think I called anyone a monster or a bad person. Did I?
I would and have. Stopped the car, taken the toy away and then just as your sister told him how dangerous and bad it was but without the hitting. And he got it just fine.
THe wrong part? Well hitting him. The stoping and telling part most probably would have worked.
Exactly. You can take away the car and explain why it was wrong without resorting to physical violence. If the kid is particularly stubborn and doesn’t get it just tell them they can’t have toys in the car anymore.
If a swat on the butt is as painless and innocuous as the pro-spankers claim then there’s really no incentive there, is there? Punishments only work if there’s a real consequence and with spanking that consequence is pain and humiliation.
“kattis says:
June 17, 2009 at 12:52 am
If my child curses at me I take away his videogame for a day.
If he throws a fit (is that like a tantrum or something?) cause in does cases I pick him up and go out of the store. Simple as that.
Well sure this isnt good for america but isnt it a fact that your jails are pretty much full? That alot of people get killed.
Im not saying that does people who did that was hit as children, but it does seem to be so pretty often.
And you shouldnt belive all parents who dont hit their childrens is hippys either like you did.
and about the rules I responded to the nine year old you mentioned.”
Normally, the most screwed up kids are the ones who DIDN’T GET ENOUGH discipline as children. But too much can be harmful as well, they need to make mistakes and get in trouble.
Not all prisons are full. Some are, that’s why prisoners are moved sometimes. We also imprison people for stupid things, like unpaid parking tickets and kids caught with pot on the street. If we only imprisoned people who were a direct threat to the welfare of the public, we’d have a LOT fewer prisoners. But again, that’s another issue.
Well I agree with you there, children needs a healty dose of discipline. And yes be allowed to make mistakes to. I dont stop my child from doing things that I know will come out in a bad way if it isnt something he will get hurt on.
Yepp another issue.
Okay. Say your child threw at toy at you while driving? What would you do to really drive home the message of how dangerous that is?
kattis says:
June 17, 2009 at 12:53 am
It is a act that is supposed to cause pain in the child. So it will learn as you guys so nicely say it.
That is violence.
It is NOT meant to cause pain. It’s a shock and an attention-getter, like snapping your fingers or a loud “HEY!” to get their attention. Some acts need a swat. I agree with that. Sometimes there are times when just removing the child from the situation will calm the fit. Every situation is different.
If it is just an attentiongetter why not do something else. Like snap your fingers, if that kind of thing works the same way why would anyone wanna hit their child instead if it isnt to put something more (the pain, as I think it was you who said about running out in the street, if the hit hurt think about how much the car will) into it?
She didn’t say that. She said if he threw a toy at her while driving she could crash then everyone would be hurt. She didn’t compare it to the swat.
Snapping your fingers doesn’t have the impact. You know how it feels to slam your hand in the car door? You’ll remember to move your hand out of the way next time, right? Same theory.
The shock is what the swat is for. NOT THE PAIN. You don’t ever hit your child enough to hurt, NOT EVER. I don’t believe in bare bottom swats, either. That’s embarrassment as well as over-kill. A swat through pants and a diaper is not painful, at all. Even through pants and underwear isn’t painful.
No not your sister you said about the child running out in the road.
But there you have it again. The pain is what your after. The impact of a hit and not a snap with the fingers is that the hit hurts.
The cardoor hurts you remember to remove your hand the next time. Pain.
pasting what you said now:
” They understand the swat, they understand when you talk to them and tell them that running out in the street would be even scarier and hurt more than that little swat”
hurt more. there you have it. pain.
You say spanking doesn’t really hurt the child, but then you compare it to slamming your hand in a car door? Last time I checked, that hurts.
this is kattis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJJA1vvMc4I
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
That made me laugh. Cuz it’s kinda true.
“NO NO NO NO NO NO NO..”
I was spanked
I turned out just fine
It really didn’t appear as ‘child abuse’ to me, nor does it in this video
i don’t know
i’m strange
I don’t believe it is child abuse either. Abuse is hitting your child in anger, meant to leave marks and cause pain. Swatting doesn’t do that.
yes, although I’m not a parent, I don’t think i was “traumatized” at all by being spanked as a child. it happened a few times, and each time that i remember, i know i was being a total brat.
for instance, i called my little sister an “asshole” because she tattled on me when I was 9 and she was 7. my parents were GOOD parents, but after a quick swat, i never said it again.
I don’t think spanking can be considered “hitting a child”
child abuse seems to stem from some sort of need for power and control. kids can be brats, and i think parents themselves know how hard discipline is. “no honey, don’t do that. it’s bad” i’m sure can’t always work
That’s just my two cents.
I agree. That warrants a swat. You NEVER call people names like that as a child, or an adult, to be honest. Rude language in direction of another person doesn’t make you look cool or smart, it makes you look stupid because you can’t come up with better words.
Wow, I didn’t expect that so many of you (here and on EB) say it’s ok to hit a child…
I dunno… my mum used to spank me a coupla times when I was a real brat and I know that I was deeply upset, not because it hurt but because I trusted her (pathetic, eh).
I wanna have kids some day (it’s ok to say that, right? lol) and I promised myself to raise them without spanking. But of course, that’s what I’m saying now… who knows, if there is this evil little thing popping out of my uterus, I might just…
I know that children need rules and all that. They’re kids, they can’t deal with a “pleeease honey, will you please stop throwing feces at the old lady? you know, that not a nice thing to do!” That’s not an option for me, they need to know their limits. But I’ll be damned if spanking is the right way to show them! (But as I said… who knows, I might update my comment in 5 yrs or so..lol)
Haha, there were some cute visuals in there. ^_^
Your opinions might change over the years. Mine have. I used to be for capital punishment, now I am not. Because I studied both sides and see that I don’t agree with it anymore. It sounds great in theory, but the reality is very different.
If you chose not to, fine, you’re entitled to that. But parents have been swatting for generations, and most of us turned out okay. I was swatted a few times, and remember clearly my father swatting me and telling me what I did was wrong. I never did it again. My dad’s a scary man when he’s angry. O.O…
No it isnt pathetic is another thing thing that is so important with this, the break of trust that a hit causes.
People do change their minds. My mother used to be pro-spanking when I was little until the day I hit her back and she realized how barbaric it was. She’s anti-spanking now.
There is no break of trust. You trust your parents to take care of you and protect you from harm. The swat will prevent them from doing whatever it was they did wrong. That’s taking care of the child and protecting them.
There are other, better methods. Use the swat as a very last resort, or when the offense is severe enough that s scare is in order. I keep saying this over and over, yet everyone seems to conveniently pass over this.
ALOT of people like EveryChildIsDifferent who was spanked as a child says that the break of trust is the worst thing.
It does exsist.
There are better method. So use them. And use them again and look for other methods when they fail but no hitting will never be ok for me not even as a last resort.
I was swatted as a kid. I trust my dad with my LIFE, because he took care of me as a child. He swatted me when I did really wrong things, and I never did them again. It’s the scare and shock that the swat is intended for. NOT THE PAIN. There should never be pain with a swat.
Its great that you trust your dad. Alot of people say they lose the trust when they get swapped tho.
“kattis says:
June 17, 2009 at 1:19 am
The cardoor hurts you remember to remove your hand the next time. Pain.
pasting what you said now:
” They understand the swat, they understand when you talk to them and tell them that running out in the street would be even scarier and hurt more than that little swat”
hurt more. there you have it. pain.”
Give your arm a quick swat, like you’d smack a bug. That’s the impact a swat needs, and remember, it will also be through pants and a diaper (assuming the child is that young). A car accident would hurt more. Or do you not agree?
Look at the video of Kate and the girl. Does it look like that is a light touch.. Not really.
Ofc a car would hurt more. I dont think any human can hit someone as hard as a car.
That video is two still shots of what actually happened. The media WANTS us to make up a some huge, horrible story. They’re inflaming the situation, making it seem like more than it really is, that’s their JOB.
Please don’t buy into the media garbage. Do your own research.
I do think the picture of the child holding her rear shows that something hurt her there. Thats all Im saying. I havent seen a single episode of Kates show so I cant say anything about it.
That picture shows a child in pain tho.
Actually, I’m sure the crying and holding herself where she was spanked was because of the surprise. I was over at a friends house once and her son was being bad so she spanked him and she didn’t even hit him that hard but he was crying like she was tourtering him. Kids are like that. They want their parents to feel bad for spanking them becuase they don’t like it and they don’t want them to do it again. I know I used to scream when I was younger if I got spanked. It didn’t really hurt though. Not that I remember anyway.
“Please don’t buy into the media garbage. Do your own research.”
Best comment on this page!
A swat is not out for pain. It’s for the shock and the impact, rather than PAIN. Kids know they did something really wrong when they get a swat.
kattis says:
June 17, 2009 at 1:31 am
I do think the picture of the child holding her rear shows that something hurt her there. Thats all Im saying. I havent seen a single episode of Kates show so I cant say anything about it.
That picture shows a child in pain tho.
She was scared. When a heavy jar nearly falls on your foot, do you pull it back? Yes. When something nearly hits you in the head, do you step away and hold it, yes. That’s what your instinct is. Leah just did her instinct, protect the area that was threatened. She could have been screaming about something else, if she was throwing a fit, she was already screaming and crying, right?
I don’t trust my mother because she didn’t protect me when I did stupid things as a kid. Because she DIDN’T tell me how bad things could end up, I did a lot of things that could have really hurt me, or killed me.
The swats from my dad drove home the message. My mom telling me that things were bad didn’t have the impact the swat did. Just saying “That’s bad” makes me want to see just how bad. Getting swatted then being told “NEVER do that again!” makes me not want to ever do it again.
kattis says:
June 17, 2009 at 1:31 am
I do think the picture of the child holding her rear shows that something hurt her there. Thats all Im saying. I havent seen a single episode of Kates show so I cant say anything about it.
That picture shows a child in pain tho.
It might be good for you to watch some episodes. She’s a good mother, all things considered. She insists on organic food as much as possible, the kids have set schedules and rules, they are all well fed and well dressed. Remember there’s 8 kids here, twins and sextuplets. The twins are 9 now, I think, and the little ones are 5. It’s like a day care mentality all day every day. Kids have a pack mentality, when one does something, they all begin to do it. When one throws a fit, the rest soon follow.
She’s a bit harder than most moms. She’s an admitted control freak, she likes things a certain way, she’s a germ-a-phobe, but I think she’s doing good things with her kids, given her very difficult situation.
Oohh abuse abuse abuse!! Magic word these days. Everyone is so scared of being called “abusive parent” that forget a bit of discipline isn’t that bad.
My parents spanked me as a child and I am a completely grown and normal adult, except when I kill kittens in resentment while I cry having flashbacks of my mum dying in the forest. Oh that was Bambi. Anyway. My parents would spank me, teach me the limits and scream at me if I was a bitch (which I most surely was). Spankings don’t hurt that much, people. I remember what I felt was humiliation and I knew my parents were angry, but the actual spank never ever hurt me.
My neighbours never dreamt of spanking the child, never raised the voice and couldn’t set proper limits because they were scared of “abuse”. Their child is a dictator nowadays -she’s 19-, a proper cunt to her grandparents and an utter bitch to the rest of the world. And yet they give her all she wants, including MY DREAM CAR AAAHH!!
So yeah, a bit of spanking is good. Just a pat on the hand, a small spank on the ass, things like that. I don’t mean a wooden stick repeatedly on the ribs.
Sounds like my reasoned-with cousin mentioned earlier. Not saying spanking would have prevented it, but proper discipline would have.
A little healthy fear of your parents is good. You respect them enough to fear that if you mess up, you’re going to get punished by them. I see nothing wrong with that.
Im just gonna go out in the sun with my child now.
Its intresting to say the least to take about those things but I dont think its strange that I dont agree with you guys since I live in a country where it is in fact against the law to do so. Im raised that way and it is buried deep in me that it is wrong.
I hope someday America will follow and make it against the law to.
American’s won’t allow that. It’s one of the civil liberties the Constitution gives us, it keep the government out of our private lives.
Very interesting debate. I think I can see both sides. Here in America most of us were swatted (or hit ) much like Jagger describes. Our parents were not trying to put fear into us or hurt us, just make us realize how seriously wrong our behavior was. We were not physically hurt and most were in no danger of becoming criminals for it. I agree with Jagger are large prison population comes from locking non-violent people up for ridiculous amounts of time.
It’s a traditional form of punishment here in the states and we generally raise our kids the same way we were raise.
That being said I work as a social worker in a large city and many many parents considered “spanking” not as a single attention getting swat, but with multiple blows sometimes with objects. It really boils down to how we as a culture define spanking. Is it one blow? Are multiple blows OK as long as they don’t leave bruising? What if you hit not in anger, but in frustration? There is so much grey area that I actually had to revise many opinion on the subject. I now advocate no hitting of children ever. I realize most responsible parents will never hurt their children, however the minority that do have made this form of discipline taboo.
I now have a two year old and I realize its hard not to just swat her on the butt like a was raised, but I am using other methods (time out, loss of toys, not going to special events, etc.) and they do work. These methods do take time and alot of patience. Believe me it would be easier to spank, but my kid does know their are boundaries and knows their will be consequences for not staying within them without any form of spanking.
Have fun in the sun! It’s just getting to be summer here, so we’re getting our sun too. I want kids someday, but I get to hang out with my sister and her kids tomorrow. Yay!
Good debate. ^_^
I hope NOT.
“I’m raised that way and it is buried deep in me that it is wrong.”
That does make sense, guys. Obviously none of us is trying to convince kattis to use physical methods. And kattis has stated: “you are not monsters.” Two sides of the argument have emerged now: hitting morally wrong vs. physical cues can spare the child real pain in the future. Thoughts?
This is not directed to kattis personally, but I do wish the rest of the world would stop telling America what to do. Stop saying, “America should be like this” – at least until you’ve stopped the Middle East from killing women who won’t cover their heads, or you’ve stopped Rwandans from killing each other.
Love for AMERICAN FREEDOMS is buried deep in me.
no, no, NO!!!!!
using ANY TYPE OF VIOLENCE AGAINST A KID WHO CANT DEFEND HIM/HERSELF IS TOTALLY ABUSIVE
it will only teach the kid that the way to obtain things is using violence
violence generates violence!!
You obviously haven’t been reading the rest of these comments. Read from top to bottom, see both sides of the issue, then contribute.
sorry Mr/Ms unpolite,
this is an OPEN debate, and anyone can post their comments, whether they have or not read the rest of the comments
cheers
yeah, I just counted that you have 36 comments, like one third of the total comments
thanks for you, er, contribution
Considering most of those comments were made between midnight and 3am (my time, not sure about anyone elses), I can have all the posts I want. Most people aren’t up that late.
I can comment as much as I want. I am not allowed to only make one comment then leave. I can reply, debate, that’s part of this system.
So the millions and millions of kids who were spanked and grow up without using violence to get what they want…are they ALL just a fluke?
If a child is throwing a tantrum to get something, and you give in, then they learn that “the only way to obtain things is using violence.”
There’s a hole in your argument.
How were you raised? Did/do you respect your parents?
Hitting a kid is abusive. Good parents can discipline their children just fine without needing to resort to violence. I don’t care what kind of strain Kate is under. If she needs to burn off steam she can take a kick boxing class or polish the silver or something. Releasing stress by taking it out on your kids, particularly in a violent manner, is wholly inexcusable.
For the record, I was spanked as a child and I would never do such a thing to my own child.
I was not hit to be punished, i was smacked (lightly, not even to hurt at all) to get my attention and divert me away from the massive tantrum I was having. It didn’t break my trust in my parents, and it didn’t cause me any mental trauma. I see people trying to reason with their kids and threaten them with grounding, and then i see those children walk all over their parents the second they look away. I worked in a grocery store and saw all the different types of discipline. I even saw some that i consider abuse where they hit the child harder than I would even begin to think of doing. I get tired of hearing people describing it as violent, or abusive, or taking your anger/stress out on a child, and I totally disagree. I think smacking a child for any little thing is a bit over the top, but I also think it’s wrong to judge a person’s child-rearing skills based on whether or not they use spanking as a deterrant.
wow…at the risk of backlash, i’ll share my thoughts:
i was sometimes spanked as a child, and never with an object, just a parent’s hand. my parents never spanked me out of anger. i was always told beforehand that a spanking (read: one pop and one pop only) would be the punishment should i choose to continue. to be honest, the spanking didn’t especially help because i didn’t particularly care. in my mind, a split second of my bum hurting was way more tolerable than time-out without my toys. i am now 18, emotionally healthy, in a great relationship with my parents (as has always been the case), and one hundred percent not affected by a few spanks as a kid. i believe that abuse is the result of anger and the inability to control one’s self and one’s actions. abuse is horrible, inexcusable, contemptible, and a very serious issue. by that token, i do not believe what i experienced comes even a little bit close to being abuse. my parents never raised a hand when they were mad or frustrated. i was never fearful or timid of or toward my parents because of it. spanking was merely a tool they tried as a means to reprimand me for knowingly breaking a rule.
just my opinion.
My brother and I were both spanked as kids. Just a flat hand once on the bottom. It probably happened to me so few times that I can count them on one hand, but we learned to be good kids, and later, good adults. We’re both successful in our chosen paths, we don’t mistrust our parents, and we treat people with kindness and respect. My sister, however, was the baby, and got “time-outs”, and reasoning, and “Sweetie, don’t do that”(my parents were older when they had her, and I think they were just tired). She learned that repercussions for bad behavior were not so bad. She’s the one who’s had problems with drugs, legal issues, and a baby at 19 with a guy who didn’t bother to stick around. Talking doesn’t always work because logic and reason aren’t strong in children (they can’t vote or sign a contract for good reason). I agree that spanking should never be done because the parent is stressed – not the kids problem or fault, so don’t take it out on them – but vilifying a person for a swat on the butt is silly. I have no problem with anyone disliking Kate – I’ve only seen snippets of the show, and she was bitchy in every bit I saw – but this? Eh.
It’s really easy to sit back and say people are bad parents for spanking their kids, particularly through the anonymity of the internet.
As for saying that spanking teaches children that spanking teaches children that violence gets you what you want is a completely illogical and unfounded argument. Look at the issue objectively for a moment.
I have friends who were and weren’t spanked as children. I know lots of people from both groups who grew up to be normal and well adjusted adults regardless of whether or not they were spanked as a child. I also know plenty of people who ended up having serious issues who weren’t spanked as children either and some who were spanked.
The fact of the matter remains that spanking is legal in the United States, and whether you believe in spanking or not, it remains a parent’s choice in whether or not to spank their children. You can argue the ideological differences all day, but the fact of the matter is, Kate can do whatever the hell she wants as long as no serious physical harm comes to her child.
Just because someone can legally do something doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. It’s perfectly legal for Kate to hit her kids, use them to make money, and do all the other awful things she does (or at least the ones we know about) but that doesn’t make them right or make it any less likely that her kids are going to hate her when they grow up.
Jsut because you disagree, doesn’t mean it’s wrong, this is an issue with alot of grey areas.
I ended up discussing this with a few of my housemates a while back. All but one of us had received corporal punishment at some point in our lives.
The one girl who had never been spanked watched in horror as the rest of us relayed stories of being threatened with the wooden spoon, or the hand, or the belt. Why was she horrified? Because we were laughing.
To punish a child with no warning is cruel. If they punch their younger sibling and you immediately pop them one, does that teach them anything? It teaches them that violence is okay.
What happens when the warning doesn’t work, though? What if no number of time-outs or stern disapprovals will stop a 6 year old from punching a 2 year old? It is far more harmful for the younger child to be subjected to this sort of treatment more than once than it is for Bobby to be smacked a couple of times on his bum.
There has to be something behind the warning. I don’t think spanking is an appropriate punishment for everything. That’s like sentencing every criminal to the death penalty, regardless of the crime.
Spanking, for my friends and I, was reserved for the worst of crimes. I was always warned that what I was doing would result in spanking. If I chose to ignore that warning, my parents carried through. Never once did I feel abused or hurt for more than a few minutes afterwards.
Back to the laughter… my friends and I were laughing at ourselves. What on earth had possessed us to misbehave and disrespect our parents like that when we knew what the consequences were? The general consensus was that none of us repeated the crimes more than once or twice, and that none of us were scarred for it. In fact, we looked back on it rather affectionately as our parents teaching us right and wrong. It’s kind of funny to see my 6′3″ husband snap to attention when his 5′ mother gestures with a wooden spoon. He’s obviously not afraid of her (since he could easily restrain her at any time), but has a deep respect for her… and the spoon.
The way I see it, children were spanked for hundreds of years, and with far more frequency. Try telling the parent (or teacher) of 1800 that children should never be beaten, let alone spanked, and see what they think. The human race has survived thus far. I think we’re all okay.
The problem with the legality is the drawing of the line between spanking and beating. Where can you hit the child, how hard, how many times, how often, for what offenses… it’s a very gray area. Maybe the government should step back from the well-meaning parents who smack their kid’s bottom once in a while and should crack down on the real bad guys… the drug addict parents, the parents who prostitute their children, the people who break their childrens’ bones and give them scars and bruises.
Next, the government will be ruling that it’s abuse to feed your child anything other than organic food because it MAY cause harm later down the line. Or that feeding your kid a chocolate bar is abuse, because they MAY end up obese and emotionally scarred.
I cannot believe people are actually defending hitting kids. There are plenty of ways to raise and discipline your kid without hitting them. Do you want your child to flinch every time you raise your hand to do anything around them?
Let’s put it this way, let’s say your professor / teacher / boss has to discipline you for your behavior. Are you going to want them to bend you over your knee and spank you? Do you want them to smack you for what you did/said?
Erm, over their knee.
Don’t be silly, it’s only OK to spank those who are too small to fight back. If someone can take you in a fair fight then you have to treat them like a fellow human being.
Who the fuck is “fighting” their children?
Nobody, that’s the point. It’s only a fight if both parties are hitting and the kids are mostly too little to fight back. I know my mother quit hitting me as soon as I hit back because she wasn’t interested in a fair fight.
Now we get to the point.
Your mom beat you. She didn’t spank you. Normal people don’t “fight” their children. Normal people don’t even seek to hurt their children. A spank is not the same thing as a beating. It just isn’t.
You’re arguing against child abuse, which is clearly what you experienced. Child abuse is wrong. A spanking is not child abuse. There are people in this world who are capable of spanking their children without beating them, or even actually hurting them.
I can see that you will never accept that possibility.
I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. When you smack a child, it should be a light wap to get their attention when they pitch a fit. Not repeated wolloping. Most of us got a warning, then a light tap if we ignored it. It was more of a ‘holy crap, she called my bluff’ shock then a ‘ow that hurt’ one. It’s the same idea as when a person is going into hysterics and you slap them to distract them. Obviously you don’t slap a child across the face, but the idea is the same.
I don’t agree with belts or anything like that. I was never hit by the spoon, but all I had to think was, ‘that would hurt alot more than a tap on the butt’ and I straightened right up. My brother… not so much. He learned the hard way.
And as for it teaches violence, I was once slapped hard by a kid who was ‘never ever spanked because my mom says that’s wrong’. Her mother told mine that she would never do that because she doesn’t allow her child to see violent things or behave in such a way. My mother informed her that she is full of s*** and that children are violent little creatures by nature, so to assume they would never perform an act of violence is complete and utter foolishness.
And i completely agree with her.
Also, I was never smacked in public, that would be humiliation, which is wrong. Children tend to go over the top with tantrums. An adult should be capable of calming down and listening when they are told they have done something wrong, so why on earth would a teacher or boss ever have to do such a thing? If you get to the point where you are so unreasonable that you deserve a smack at work or school, you should be suspended or fired, which would be ten times more humiliating than a smacked bottom.
There’s a difference. You don’t raise your hand to your kids face for instance. They’re warned ahead of time. Parents who are spanking (not abusing) tell their kids over and over again before they do it. They don’t LIKE spanking them. My mom used to count beforehand and warn us and ask us to stop. When you have four kids and they’re not stopping after you’ve warned them a hundred times and counted to 5 including half seconds and quarter seconds then you give them a swat on their padded behinds. Spanking never hurt me, it was a surprise and I cried but I was never injured. And ten minutes later I loved my mom just as much. It’s not like she spanked us every day. It was a very rare thing that happened and it was only on those days when no other discipline would have worked. And nobody except your parent is entitled to spank you and you don’t spank a kid past the age of say 8 years old.
I was spanked as a child. Too much and in anger. It wasn’t a good thing.
As a parent I have reserved spankings for situations where words aren’t effective and the alternative is unacceptable. When my child was trying to do something that would be harmful to her, but was too young to be reasoned with.
For instance, she reaches for a candle. I want her to associate pain with fire, but I don’t want her to learn the very hard way. If “no” doesn’t work on its own, a pop on the hand and a forceful “no” get her attention. I don’t mean a lot of pain, just enough to make her realize something bad will happen if she reaches for open flame.
As far as spanking as a routine punishment, I think it just doesn’t work that well. It also shows a lack of creativity. My daughter knows all about farming because I made her read and summarize that section of the encyclopedia. Instead of spanking her.
Sticking a finger in a candle really doesn’t hurt. As soon as it starts hurting she’d pull back and learn not to stick her finger in the flame. That happens well before any damage occurs. My son stuck his finger in a candle flame once at a b’day party, said ‘ow mummy!’ and asked for a kiss. His finger wasn’t even red but that little pain was enough for him to learn not to stick his finger in the flame again.
Now I could have slapped his hand away instead. He would never have experienced the feeling of fire on his finger therefore wouldn’t learn not to stick his fingers in flames. He might have learned not to do it while I was watching but that’s about it. That course of action leaves him in more pain, ignorant of the effect of flame on skin, and with a fear that his mom might hit him again.
That was an example. She never had to experience fire because she experienced a much less painful alternative.
She’s 16 and she has never once shied away from me for fear of being hit. She’s completely well adjusted and harbors no resentment.
Do you have something to say about that? Or do you think the few times I spanked her damaged her in some way that won’t present itself till her 30’s?
I agree with Alzaetia. What parent could stand by and watch while a child touches a flame? What if a sleeve caught fire? Swatting the child’s hand away is KIND compared to the potential danger of fire.
Reading the encyclopedia? That’s a great punishment. I know that would have sucked for me. ^_^ My boyfriend wants to punish with pushups and wall-sits, but that’s a bit much for little tiny kids.
That’s another good example of when the swat is appropriate. I even prefer the word swat over spanking, because we’re not open handedly paddling a child’s bare butt, we’re whapping the bum ONCE, usually just with the fingers rather than the palm or whole hand.
I grabbed a lit gas camping lantern when I was a toddler once. Before any one could stop me. I wasn’t punished because the pain and blisters were enough. But if I had been caught before grabbing the lantern, you can bet the swat I would have gotten for reaching for it. They’re effective for the big, dangerous, or severe offenses. The swat is NOT to be used for the little things.
Kids won’t fear your hand if you swat them. They’ll fear getting in trouble, and behave. I feel it’s an effective attention-getter, not an official punishment.
To this day she can identify farm equipment…
Everyone who is against spanking seems to look at it the same way; hit ‘em for every little thing. In reality, I think most of us got a warning ’stop that right now or’ followed by a light tap and then an explanation.
Rhonda said “Now I could have slapped his hand away instead. He would never have experienced the feeling of fire on his finger therefore wouldn’t learn not to stick his fingers in flames.”
Not how it worked with me. I was always given a warning then when i pulled a life lesson move such as touching a candle, walking on hot gravel in bare feet, avoiding sunscreen as I grew up, etc., I heard the ‘I told you so’ when I ran crying to Mommy.
Please people, try and look at it from a less extremist point of view. Even if you don’t agree, don’t treat people like pariahs just because time-outs and grounding didn’t work for their kids. Every child is differnet, we all behave in different ways. Some are very quiet, some are particularily cruel, some have horrid tempers. Even in my family my mom got a few different types. My one brother was so hyper he was impossible to control. Smacking him made him laugh and run off. My one brother was grounded for 3 months straight once. Didn’t really do anything for him. It took him years to grow up; he had to learn for himself, my parents gave him the lessons and had to wait for them to sink in. I watched my brothers and learned. I didn’t want to get smacked, so I avoided doing anything that led up to that. Except on one occasion when i was twelve and being a ridiculously stupid little prat and screaming my head off and refusing to calm down. One smack was all it took to tkae my mind off whatever set me off. Most of the time I respected the threat. I never feared my parents. It’s like respecting the law. Behave or deal with the consequences.
Hitting is just taking out your own frustration on a child. If as an adult someone even “attention swatted” you I bet you’d be pissed and humiliated. Saying it doesn’t cause pain is bullshit, if it doesn’t do anything to the child then it wont work. And yes the US does have certain laws about spanking such as age limits, after a certain age your mentally fucking your child over, congrats.
My nephew gets swatted if he doesn’t eat his meal. While he’s twisting around, talking, playing with it, trying to get down, dilly dallying, you name it. If he doesn’t eat, he gets a swat and sent to bed. No crying involved.
You can’t honestly tell me you’d sit there and say “Eat your food, little Timmy” for hours and hours as a kid plays with his food and twists around and talks to everyone and everything, doing everything he can to NOT eat. It’s not that he’s not hungry, it’s that he doesn’t want to be taken away from his toys or games to eat. He figures if he says he’s not hungry or full that he’ll get to go back to them. THEN he comes back an hour later and says he’s hungry. No, if you had eaten when it was given to you, you wouldn’t be hungry now. If my sister didn’t drive home the message that you eat when it’s given to you, she’d be making food all damn day.
If my sister didn’t swat him, it would take him literally HOURS to eat a simple meal. Saying “EAT” after every bite gets tiring real quick and he’ll learn that if he doesn’t eat when it’s given to him, he goes hungry… and gets popped. The pop comes after the empty stomach.
Swatting your kids doesn’t mentally scar them. I don’t understand where people come up with this. Most of the population was swatted as kids, and most are honest, tax-paying, law abiding citizens. It’s only the MINORITY who are on TV saying “my parents swatting me as kids lead me to grow up and horribly murder them!” That’s not how it works. What other issues did that guy have? I bet being swatted as a kid was the least of his problems.
Kid won’t eat, fine he doesn’t eat that meal they aren’t going to starve themselves to death
I really don’t see why she needs to hit him to make him eat. I put the food on the table and everyone who wants to eat does. If my kid doesn’t eat I tell him that’s all he’s getting. Sometimes he eats, sometimes he doesn’t. In either case the food sits there for a reasonable period of time and then the table is cleared. If he goes to bed hungry that’s his problem. If he tries something and genuinely doesn’t like it he has the option of a piece of fruit or making himself a peanut butter sandwich.
No need to hit him, the rumbling belly is message enough. There’s a lot of middle ground between being a short order cook and hitting your child for not eating when you think they should eat.
Good suggestion – I use that tactic at dinner as well :)
I know it doesn’t cause pain because I was the one who was swatted and I remeber it clearly. It didn’t hurt, it was just suprise that they went through with the promise that if I didn’t quit I’d get spanked.
There’s no point arguing against the perfect mother’s here who’ve read every parenting book that exists. If my parent’s hadn’t spanked me I would seriously have been out of control. It’s what you do when no other discipline works. I’m one of four children and my mom was a damn good mother and we have a great relationship. Both of my brothers turned out fantastically and my sister is practically an angel. We were ALL spanked and we all turned out great. My parents have no angry bones in their bodies and the spanking was not violent. Every kid is different and not all of the “magical hippy methods” work on every kid, and not all of them work in America where kids are so much more likely to be spoiled. Like I said on EB all the kids I went to school with who were not spanked as children ended up being really naughty teens as in drinking by 11 drugs by 13 and sex by 12. Maybe it’s coincidence but I think some of it might have to do with the lack of discipline there was in their family.
I think people need to understand that those advocating swatting are NOT monsters, were not abused as children, and don’t do it with the intent to harm. We’re doing what we think needs to be done to control our children. Would you rather us let our kids run screaming and terrorizing in the grocery store, or one quick swat to the behind to snap them out of their tantrum?
Actually, I was abused as a child. But I think that gives me some pretty good insight as to what is and is not abuse.
I do not repeat the mistakes of my parents.
I’d rather you taught your children how to behave appropriately and enforced the rules without hitting your child. You seem to have a real problem with the idea of a middle ground here. It’s not a choice between letting your kids run wild or hitting them. There are many other options.
My child doesn’t run and scream in the supermarket because he has been taught how to behave from a young age. He knows that little boys who can’t behave don’t have fun. Maybe we’re planning a trip to the playground after shopping that might get canceled if he doesn’t behave. Maybe I have cookies on the list and he’ll get to choose which ones to buy if he’s a good boy till we get to that aisle.
Whoa! She has a problem with a middle ground? You’re the one taking an all or nothing approach to spanking.
You’re confusing the issues. Jagger asked if kids should be allowed to run wild or if they should be spanked. I said there are other options, different ways of controlling and disciplining children.
There are degrees of spanking from a short tap to multiple strikes with a weapon (spoon, paddle, slipper…) but parents either use spanking as punishment or they don’t, that part is either or.
I love when people say “I’d RATHER you raised your kids this way”. You don’t know her or her kids and you’re not a parenting official. Moms can be so opinionated when it comes to their methods. As long as the kid is raised to behave and isn’t raised in an extremist environment (as in abusive) then I don’t see the problem. There’s a difference between a spanking and an abusive attack on your child. When I got spanked I knew exactly why I was being spanked and I knew something I did was wrong. When parents are abusive the child has NO IDEA why they’re being hit and it’s not a light swat it’s a blow. There are instances of both sides working and there are instances of both sides NOT working. Even “perfect moms” aren’t perfect.
No, I was just amused that you were telling somebody else to find a middle ground. I wasn’t actually responding the argument at all.
This is the first time I’ve seen you acknowledge that there are degrees of spanking. Everything else you’ve said suggests that you find any spanking at all to be a form of abuse.
I do believe in a middle ground. I believe I’ve said in nearly every post that swatting needs to BE A LAST RESORT! Of course teach your kids not to throw tantrums in stores, but it’s going to happen away sometimes. Maybe they’re hungry, or tired, or whatever. It happens.
Me nephew once saw a little boy screaming in the store, looked at my sister and said “He’s being a bad boy.” So he KNOWS not to throw a fit in stores, but he’s done it once or twice anyway, because he’s frustrated, or tired, or hungry, whatever.
I love how people skim over posts, pick out the buzz words they want then comment.
“There’s no point arguing against the perfect mother’s here who’ve read every parenting book that exists.”
Translation: Only lazy parents hit their kids.
Is that what you’re saying? Laziness is the cause for people physically abusing their children?
I don’t see how you got that. I’m saying that parenting books are bull shit and you shouldn’t need to read a parenting book to raise your children. I don’t see spanking as abuse. I was spanked and I was certainly not abused.
Yes you were. Being hit against your will is abuse. Parenting books are not bullshit. It’s not my fault some parents are so uncreative that they have to result to abusing their children.
If spanking isn’t abuse, can I spank your children?
“If spanking isn’t abuse, can I spank your children?”
No, you can’t spank my children.
You also can’t tell them what to wear or who they can hang out with or what their bedtime is or what they can watch on tv or how much tv they can watch or what they can eat.
The list of things you can’t do with my children is long, and it has nothing to do with whether or not spanking is abuse.
No I wasn’t. I have incredibly loving parents and when I was bad I was spanked it happened maybe ten times in my entire life. Slapping your child in the face is abuse, punching them is abuse. Swatting them on the butt? Not so much. They made sure that I knew what I did wrong, and they made sure that I knew they loved me after.
When I have kids I probably will choose to not spank them, because I believe in operative learning through positive and negative reinforcement as opposed to punishment. That’s because I think discipline is necessary. I do not think that people who choose to spank their children are bad parents or are abusing their kids though. Being a parent is enough of a challenge without people forcing their own ideas about how you should be on them. That’s what my issue here is. I don’t have a problem with people saying what they think about it but a lot of the people here are just telling other people that they’re bad parents, are abusing their children, and should do things this way when it’s none of their business how these people are raising their kids.
You also can’t tell them what to wear — There are laws that define what is appropriate for people to wear
or who they can hang out with — again, there are laws (at least where I live) about who you can “hang out with” in public
or what their bedtime is — curfew
or what they can watch on tv — TV is generally filtered, unless you’re letting your kids watch porn or something
or how much tv they can watch — hopefully only enough to poison their minds forever!
or what they can eat. — public schools have rules against certain food items in schools.
So while I cannot *personally* do those things. Others can. So would you be okay with your kid’s principal spanking him/her?
I feel like I’m having a Sarah Palin/David Letterman moment here where you’re purposely misinterpreting the intent of what I said.
For example, I have never let my daughter watch MTV. It’s a channel that is unfiltered but it goes against my parenting standards to let her watch women being objectified, so I make and enforce rules about it.
Logo is another unfiltered channel. She watches it all the time, and if somebody told her she shouldn’t because it went against their value system I’d be super pissed.
To get to your question about the principal, no. I would not let a stranger (even one in authority) spank my child. I do not, and never have, spanked my child as a form of punishment, so it’s not the best example. The only reason the principal would be spanking my child is to punish her.
But would I have let my best friend, who loves my daughter as much as I do, who understands and respects my value system, spank her? Yes. Because she would only do it in a case that I would do it. And because she loves my daughter and would properly express that love.
I stopped spanking my daughter (under any circumstances) when she became old enough to reason with.
I am uber creative and have no need of spankings with children that can be reasoned with or otherwise threatened. I have never used a spanking as a threat to insure good behavior.
I posted a reply with articles on the subject, but it needs to be moderated because of the links. You can see why I am against any kind of violence in the text contained in them.
I would very much like to see why you’re against violence of any kind, but to be honest, nothing I read is going to convince me that the few spankings my daughter has received have damaged her.
We have a very open and trusting relationship. I have nurtured her body, brain and soul and and the proof of that is the person she is today.
She is trusting, compassionate, disciplined and respectful. She knows to the core of her being how devoted I am to her and her happiness. We have a really good relationship.
I have a two year old now and I constantly consult my daughter. She gives her input as to what she did and didn’t like about how I raised her. She’s even told me what she didn’t like but thinks was good for her and has suggested I do it for my son too.
And the point of all of that is this; spanking has never been a topic of our conversation. Because no spanking I ever gave her left an impression, either good or bad.
It is possible to spank without abusing. That has been my point the entire time and it remains my point now.
I think I have a slightly different view of this issue.
I have 5 children – 3 grown, happy successful adults, 2 teens still at home.
I spanked every single one of them. It was not a daily, or even monthly occurrence. Spanking should be saved for the big issues. An example would be a child attempting to run into the street. I don’t care who you are – you simply cannot make a young child understand death.
You should use spanking as (one of many) child-rearing tools. I work in a K-12 setting and I see so many kids who have no respect for themselves, others or authority. The consequences for their misbehavior amuses them. My kids knew that if the school had to call me about a behavior problem they were in big trouble. They have all been good to excellent students and whenever I went to an open house or teacher’s conference, I got nothing but compliments on what polite and well-behaved kids they are/were.
There is a major difference between spanking and child abuse. I also feel that by the time a child is 8 or so, the die is cast. You should never have to spank a child older than that. Again, it is something to be used only as absolutely necessary – and NEVER in anger.
When you see someone that is constantly smacking their child, you know there is something wrong there.
“I also feel that by the time a child is 8 or so, the die is cast. You should never have to spank a child older than that.”
I totally agree with that. My daughter and I have been discussing this issue this morning as she’s been sitting right next to me. We were trying to remember the last time she was spanked, and neither of us can.
Alternatively, you just don’t let your kid get in to a position where they’re likely to run in to the street under they’re old enough to understand the consequences. If they’re too young to understand they shouldn’t run in to traffic then they shouldn’t be hanging around unrestrained near roads.
First, you can’t shield kids from every danger. We’ve all seen baseballs fly over fences, we’ve all had to walk our kids through parking lots. Saying “you don’t let your kid get into a position where they’re likely to run into the street” is a loaded statement and rather condescending statement.
Second, it’s a scientific fact that children don’t understand danger the way adults do. Little kids’ brains don’t have the same depth perception that adults’ brains do. They literally can’t process the danger of cars in the same way.
I have never spanked my 3 boys (I’m fortunate to have sweet sons), but my husband and I agreed that running away from us in a parking lot is the one situation where we WOULD let ourselves spank them – BECAUSE children don’t psychologically understand danger.
If you’re walking your kid through a parking lot you should be holding their hand. If they’re the kind of kid that struggles and pulls to get away then put them in a stroller or use a safety harness. Better to take preemptive action than spank them after the fact, assuming they don’t get hit by a car.
Are you kidding me? Kids can get into any kind of danger regardless of whether or not you use every precaution. I think putting your child in a safety harness and walking them on a leash like a dog is worse than spanking them.
That can be humiliating, depending on how old the child is. I sort of agree with them sometimes, like when you’re out at the county fair or farmer’s market, as I said in my other post. Then they can’t run off.
I live in Seattle, and anyone who’s been here has more than likely been to the Pike Place Market. Google it if you want to get an idea of the crowds that gather here sometimes. There was a news story once of a 5 year old child getting kidnapped in the Market because Mom was purchasing something. If that child had been on a leash would they have been taken? (The child was recovered safely a few yards down the market and the man was caught and arrested.)
Personally I believe that keeping a child safe is better than hitting them. Kids have been wearing safety harnesses for decades and it’s only in the past few years that I’ve heard this crap about treating them like dogs or stifling their freedom. Yeah I stifled my kids freedom by not allowing him to run in to traffic or run away in the mall. That doesn’t mean he’s a dog; it means I’m a good mother.
What about at the grocery store, while you’re loading things into the car? I work at one, and see this all the freaking time! Let me say first: PUT YOUR KIDS AWAY BEFORE YOU PUT THE GROCERIES AWAY. Ahem… but some parents don’t. What if you’re out at the county fair or the farmer’s market and they go to cross the street before the light changes? You’re distracted watching for cars, hefting your purse, handling other kids that may be with you, watching for the light to change. Things happen, you can’t control your kids all the time.
We who dont hit our children arent hippys either just as you are not monsters, is it really that hard to see that some people actually can rasie a child without raising thier hand at them?
And being smacked for not eating!? Are you kidding me? Is that one of the BIG issues smacking should be ok with. Poor poor child.
I understand you guys saying its not for every occasion, I got that. I just dont see the need for it at all, the last post got back to the child and the road. My family lives by a road and we have water flowing behind our house, neither my son or the boy next door EVER go to the road or the water, and we have never hit them, talking does take you far far far, and a upset mum who just caught you from getting on the road as little is still in their heads and they know that cars are big and bad and they can infact hurt you alot. They got that lesson in without us inflicting pain on them.
If talking works so well for you, perhaps you could tell us what you say? and how you say it?
I think some of us are having a hard time with your solutions because we’ve all seen toddlers talk back and have tantrums – two situations where you can’t sit down and have a conversation about it. Children do need boundaries.
You keep saying that “talking takes you far.” I’d be very interested to learn what you actually say.
I talk I explain why he cant do what he does but my son can get really really mad, he just screams, in does cases I find it better to leave him in is room until he cools down and then we talk. My son talks alot for his age and he does understand most of what I say and I think me always talking to him not just when it comes to discipline is why its so easy for me to use this method.
And he have rules, he cant swear at us for example. If he does the videogame is gone for a day. Swear again and its two days. And so on. It works for us.
Threats about the videogame for example is always followed through, otherwise there is no point, then he will learn its just empty words and it will not work, never say something you dont mean and that your not willing to follow through.
Forgive me if someone else has already offered this view – I read half the page and y’all seemed to be repeating yourselves :)
While I don’t spank my 3 boys (I’m lucky, they’re good kids), I agree with those who say there’s a difference between child abuse and spanking.
The word “spank” does you no favors. It sounds angry and violent. But the purpose of spanking is not to hurt the child. Very small children are prone to routines – If they want something, act out, and then you reason with them and take away future privileges, it’s hard for them to process the long link between action and consequence. Physical discipline provides an IMMEDIATE consequence for their actions. And it’s over quickly. Instead of grounding for ages or taking away privileges for a day, you quickly discipline the child and then teach them to move on.
I’ll give you an example:
Last Saturday I took my 3-year-old son Nick to Central Market (local grocery store). He had a little list of what we were going to buy.
First, we saw a black woman in line for fish. Her toddler grandson kept picking things up and pestering her to buy them. She kept angrily shoving his hands away. Finally she spanked him. It taught him nothing.
Then, we saw another woman pushing one of those umbrella strollers. Her daughter did that thing where kids slam their feet on the floor to stop the stroller. If you have a little kid you know what I’m talking about! The mom knelt in front of the stroller, firmly grabbed her daughter’s ankles and said, “That hurts Mommy. Where should you put your feet.” That’s the extent of the conversation you can have with a toddler. Short. Stern. Clear. Done.
Squeezing the child’s ankles reinforced what Mom was saying. The mom didn’t lash out at her kid. She tied an immediate consequence to the action. Five minutes later, instead of talking about the privileges the little girl would lose when they got home, they were laughing and sharing grapes together. That’s the thing about physical reinforcement – IT’S OVER QUICKLY.
Honestly, I’ve never liked the taking away privileges approach. Then it’s all “Mean Mommy took away my video game!” The kid focuses on getting it back, not on their behavior. If it at all prevents them from misbehaving in the future, it’s because they’ve learned to value the toy you took away. It becomes a control thing.
Time outs, praise and strict routines work much better with my value system, but that’s just me personally. :)
Since the videogame part was aimed at me Im gonna respond to it.
A child that is hit is in the same way not focused on the behavior the child is set not to get hit again is it not?
I really dont see how it is different.
If he swears the game is taken away, he learns if he wants to have his game he cannot do that and doesnt swear.
The child swears and the child gets a hit. The child learns that if it doesnt want to get hit again it better not swear.
Where is it different? Besides me not inflicting pain to get to my point.
I actually agree. There are some instances where that works. Some kids take to it better than others, though. What if he screams when you take the game, falls on the floor, kicks and punches the ground? Do you just close the door and take the game? I’m honestly asking here.
The game is by the tv so it sits where it sits, if he does that tho a I think you would call it “time out”, I lift him up and puts him in his room, it never takes him more then a minute to cool down and he comes out and says he is sorry. talking is pointless if he is screaming so its better to let him scream it of and talk when he is calm.
I don’t want you to think that I’m picking on you, Rhonda – but it is obvious that you have never gone to the grocery store with 5 children. This was not a one time thing, either. Everywhere I went, I usually had to take them all with me. Just navigating from the parking lot to the store is an adventure. Believe me – there is always one in the crowd who makes Harry Houdini look like a rank amatuer.
Fortunately, by the time the last 3 were born they came out with the leashes for kids. My 3rd child still managed to escape it once in awhile, but it sure helped!
Interestingly enough – the 2nd or 3rd time I used the leash, I was verbally assaulted by an elderly lady who threatened to call Children’s Services because I was treating my kids like dogs. LOL
One of my friends once had an old woman actually try to take the leash off her child in the store. She called for security and the woman was arrested and charged with attempted kidnapping. I sometimes wonder if that taught her to mind her own business.
Hahahaha! I shouldn’t laugh, but that’s just funny. The image is running through my head of that now. ^o^
If they are used wisely, like in SUPER crowded places, I think they can be effective. They make cute ones, with little monkey backpacks on them and stuff. But don’t use them as an every day thing. Teach your kids to NEVER go with someone, and if anyone grabs them to SCREAM BLOODY MURDER. My sister saw the article about the 5 year old kidnapped in Pike Place Market and reinforced the proper response with her kids for like a week. Even let them practice their screams a bit. ^_^
We mostly used it if we were doing a fair amount of walking when my son was younger and shorter. It was pretty uncomfortable for him to hold hands all the time since he had to reach up so high and having the leash meant I could hold his hand at the important times like crossing the street or in a crowded area (the times when I still hold his hand today basically) and then give him a few feet of freedom at other times. I remember when it was just standard practice to use them and now there are so many people against them which is a shame because they’re so good for the kids and the parents.
Okay so I looked up and browsed some articles on the subject:
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/14/nfm.spanking/
http://life.familyeducation.com/parenting/spanking/45304.html
http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content4/spanking.morph.html
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/spanking-kids-increases-risk-sexual-problems-adults-15590.html
http://www.nospank.net/n-j15.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051114110820.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin3.htm
The closest thing I could find to a “pro-spanking” article was this:
http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1116929596.htm
Aww man this is missing some links.
None of articles suggest that any and all spanking will be detrimental to a child. If you agree with the articles you’ve posted, then I don’t think we’re as far from agreement as you think we are.
I don’t think spankings are effective as a form of punishment. I also don’t think that an occasional spanking is going to damage a child.
I think motive, frequency and delivery have everything to do with what kind of impact spankings have on children.
All it takes is one time crossing the line. Once you’ve hit your kid it opens the possibility up to do it again and again. And again. And again. Violence is damaging to others both mentally and physically. Not to mention it brings bad karma.
That’s a slippery slope argument. I hate those. (Mostly because I hear them so often from people who are against gay marriage.)
I agree that hitting your child in anger one time opens up the possibility that you’ll continue to do it.
I don’t agree that all spanking opens you up to doing it in anger.
Case in point, me. My daughter and I are well past the spanking age. I have never hit her in anger. To suggest that nobody is capable of controlling their temper is ridiculous.
I was spanked occasionally as a small child (in the 2-5 years range), and I was also hit as a teenager. I experienced the latter–when my mom lost control–as abuse, but not the former. There is a definite difference.
However, I’m not sure how I feel about spanking. It taught me fear of authority–even years after I had stopped getting spankings, I’d back to the wall when mom was upset with me. I’m not sure that’s a good thing. It’s taken me years as an adult to learn to trust my own judgement, that I can be my own person and not `follow the rules’.
However, if your child has no fear of authority, then how do you manage their behavior? I’ve seen many kids who’ve not been spanked wind up spoiled, including my much-younger sister (mom had changed her ways by then). Now my sister’s a teenager and is very disrespectful of my mom and just totally ignores what she says (for example, totally refusing to get out of bed on a school day). What do you do with a teenager like that? They’re too old to physically force to do what you want anymore.
A child can respect authority without being spanked. It’s important to have mutual respect. I see too many people who treat their kids like crap, never use basic manners with them like saying please or thank you, and just generally do not treat their kids as human beings in their own right. Those people are always complaining that their kids don’t show them any respect. I remember one woman asking me how I taught my son such beautiful manners because she couldn’t convince her 3 year old to use basic manners at all. It’s not hard, it’s mostly just a case of modeling good behavior. If my son gives me a cookie I say thank you and vice versa. If he wants me to pass him something he says please because I say please when I ask him to pass me something.
The other thing is teaching them to respect your authority over them and that doesn’t need to involve hitting. I’ve seen a lot of people say that when they spank it’s just an attention getting shock. I can accomplish the same thing with a sharp “hey!” When my son hears that he stops whatever he’s doing and I can tell right away if he knows he’s done something wrong or if he really had no clue he was being naughty. If he has no clue then we talk about it and why it’s wrong. If he’s deliberately being a stinker he’ll make the situation right (usually cleaning something up) and apologize.
All I can say is I’m glad none of you guys are my parents. My parents have never in their lives spanked me or used any form of corporal punishment to discipline me. They were spanked as children, but they decided that it was not how they wanted to raise me.
Yes, it is legal, and people are free to parent this way, but I just wish people wouldn’t be violent with their children, be it with actions or words. Maybe I am being a hippie, but hell, why not? They got some things right.
I live in Germany (so sorry for my writing issues, I usually just read here and on Evilbeet) and here it is forbidden to spank children.
But most people here still think its okay to do so, and they still spank their children regardless of the fact that it is illegal.
I personally think that it is wrong, although I spanked the daughter of my boyfriend once when I was so shocked because she ran away in the Zoo (on purpose because she wants to hide a bit) and I was unable to find her for almost twenty minutes. By then I have allready had called the police and was on the edge of a heart attack because I thought she had been kidnapped. But I had not done it on purpose in that moment, I simply lost controll of myself because I was so afraid.
When I was young my Mom used to spank me (or more often she just slapped me in the face). She had kind of a difficult live because my father was a alcoholic back then. The thing was, she used it in a very unpredictable way, so that I was unable to tell which behaviour would result in spanking and which one would not.
Also I was a very calm child back then, with good grades and stuff like that (and my mom was sooo proud, everytime a teacher or a neighbour told her so) so there was no need to spank me.
She stopped with it when I was 12, when I told her (after she just hit me) if she would do it only one more time I would show her in return how it is.
And even though my father was very frightening back when he was an active alcoholic (which he was till I was 13 or somewhat) he never hit me and I would have choosen to live with him no matter how drunk he was. Screaming at me was not as “severe” for me as spanking me.
And allthough I love my mother, and the relationship between us is really good now, there is still this “thing” between us.
Everytime we argue I am afraid of beeing smacked by her, and I am still angry about the point that she hit me when I was little.
Im against spanking because of my personal experience but I understand that some parents sometimes think its “necessary” or something like that.
If the child of my boyfriend (I know here since shes two and now shes almost six) throws a tantrum in the supermarket I just let her.
I walk away, doing my groceries. She did that only two times with me, then she realised that it has no effect on me and stopped it.
Had it distracted the other people in the store? Maybe. Was it embarassing? Definitly. And wouldnt it be easier to just smack her? Sure.
But I am off the opinion that the easiest way isnt always the best.
Same with the eating: She still has days were she finds here toys more interesting than eating. I tell her that she doesnt has to, but if she decides to not eat now, she will not get anything till next meal.
Its her decision and I think she gets the “if I am not eating I will be hungry” thing without the “I have to eat because otherwise I will get smacked” thing.
But if the spanking thing works for other people and their kids, thats fine with me. After all they have to deal with their offspring when they are able to “strike” back.
What you’re describing is abuse. When there’s no way to predict what you’ll be spanked for, and when the person doing the spanking is taking out their own frustrations on you, it’s not just a spanking.
It sucks to grow up like that. I’m sorry you had to.
Well, Yes you are probably right that mine wasnt simple spanking.
Allthough it meets the definition of spanking of some of the comments above. It never leave bruises (well, none you could have seen) and she never used a stick or something.
Well my intention was not whining about my childhood (i outlived it, and it could have been worse, I have a good relationship to my parents now) I just wanted to say that everyone who spanks his child should think about the point that sometimes the children dont forget and dont forgive it. No matter if the spanking was “needed” in the situation or not.
My worst nightmare is that one day the daughter of my boyfriend will tell me “well you spanked me in the zoo and I hate you because of that”.
Spanking little children just feels terribly wrong to me on a emotional level.
They cant hit back and they cant just leave. They are victims, so to say. Perhaps in their “best interest” sometimes, but they still are.
My childhood was VERY similar to yours.
I can understand the fact that you don’t want to become like your parents and ruin the relationship with a child because of a punishment. However, I believe in a light spank on the bum in situations that call for it. I would never use spanking as an everyday thing.
You’re english is very good, by the way. :)
Just a quick comment here–I wanted to chime in as one of those who was spanked as a child and turned out just fine. I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the times I was spanked. I’m not a serial killer or a rapist or a gangbanger. I’m a well-adjusted woman with a good job, great husband, two MAs, and a baby on the way. I don’t have flashbacks or anger issues or self-esteem problems. I was never abused. I was swatted when I acted like a brat. I learned not to act like a brat. (PS, I call it a swat not to minimize it, but because that’s what it is. I wouldn’t call a mild rain shower a downpour, or an aphid a huge monstrous bug, now would I?)
If you don’t believe in spankings, that’s fine. I’d never tell someone they were a bad parent because they didn’t spank. If talking works for your kids, that’s great. I’m glad you’ve found a method that works for you. I don’t know what we’ll do with our kids, but we’ll see what works.
As for leashes…I think those are far more humiliating than getting a swat in public. And if the talking reasonably method works so well, why does the child need to be physically restrained by a leash?
I agree with you, absolutely! I’ve been spanked as a child, and can also count on my fingers how many times exactly. And I’ve turned out fine.
And leashes… honestly, a parent can’t even look after their goddamn child in public without the child being leashed to themselves?! That’s sad.
Just wait till you have a two year old boy in a theme park…
I’m about 95% sure that you don’t have kids and probably have very little experience trying to shop with a curious toddler. Kids don’t want to hold hands all the time (would you want to hold hands with someone over twice your height all day long?) and you can’t watch them every single second unless you are miraculously able to do all your shopping by touch only. It’s not like you’re going to tether them out in the yard, it just gives kids that little extra bit of freedom and parents that little extra bit of security.
Wearing a cute little monkey or puppy back pack with a long tail is going to do a child no harm at all. I’m actually surprised there are so many people against them here because I had very little negative reaction in public while using one. One woman had the nerve to lecture me on the subject but sadly I had to cut her short to point out that her child had wandered off down the aisle while she wasn’t paying attention.
“One woman had the nerve to lecture me on the subject but sadly I had to cut her short to point out that her child had wandered off down the aisle while she wasn’t paying attention.”
Hahaha!
It’s so rare for the universe to just align so nicely like that, got to cherish those moments when they come around ;-)
Yeah, spanking is unfair. That’s part of the point. It’s the epitome of parental privilege invoked: You will not do that again, and I have the authority to tell you so. It brings things to a level beyond reasoning and arguing, to the “this is how it is, kid, I have power over you” level. Parents should not, themselves, be operating from that level. But, occasionally, kids (apparently) need to be reminded of that bedrock level of reality. Spankings should never be adminstered in anger, only rarely (if ever) in public, and should be phased out as the child gets older. I have 4 smart kids, who occasionally, because of an outburst of stubbornness or near-stupidity, get spanked. They also know that both parents love them unconditionally and will hug, kiss, tickle, roughhouse, etc. with them as desired. And, no coincidence, I believe, they are nearly always the best behaved children whenever we’re out in public — not because they’re in fear of a spanking or other punishment, but because we’ve consistently taught them the boundary of the relationship: I am the parent, you are the child; I love you dearly, but when I give an instruction, you obey.
Kudos to Kate for disciplining her kids instead of letting them run wild.
liv tyler is a great person!
http://x17online.com/celebrities/liv_tyler/breaking_news_liv_tyler_rushes_to_aid_of_abused_child-06172009.php
OK think of spanking this way.. In life through out the years the amount of kids getting in trouble has climbed to outrageous rates. There are more kids doing drugs and getting into trouble due to the simple fact that the difference between right and wrong has not been instilled or that they had no fear of something happening if they did something wrong. In the 50 and 60 kids feared that their parents would hit them if they did the wrong thing and there were less problems in society then. SOOO one would have to suspect that the decline in punishing children is the direct cause of the increase in crimes committed by children and adolescences. Since there were fewer problems when parents did hit. Not saying that you should abuse, but a whoopin would be a effective deterrent for kids that don’t listen like one person said, not the only discipline but one if the kiddo is not able to be reached by other measures. AND, it is in America, the parents right to choose how to handle the situation. I am a nurse and worked with adolescence that are high risk and in juvenile detention. So that is my point of reference!
I think the decline in discipline altogether has more of an impact than the decline of spanking in particular.
Oh I agree however, parents are afraid to discipline their children now a days and the fact that you ground and time out the kids, is not always effective. So when it comes to spanking they don’t and if kids still feared a good whoopin’ then they might think 2x before doing the things that they are doing. Of course there are mental health issues, however most of the kids that I interviewed, were not spanked. They were punished by other means and felt no fear of consequences. Literally, I can not share specifics, due to confidentiality laws, but if I could, you would use a wee bit harsher discipline into children at a younger age, and you would see a lesser population of kids in juvi and worse.
So far I have two beautiful, smart, healthy children. I live and breathe for these little men, whom I hope, through my parenting, will become gentlemen worthy of good wives and families and respect of their communities. And I believe there is a difference between spanking (that bottom warming swat) and beating (a reactionary, hard slap to pretty much anywhere else (besides maybe the hand, but better the slap to the hand than burnt, cut, missing fingers, right?). One of my children reacts particularly well to swats. All I have to do is turn him to my leg and tap his bottom (tap, mind you). He’s already so upset at getting into trouble that nothing more is needed, just the symbolic gesture of punishment.
The other, however, I don’t spank. And this is why. He is FREAKING IMPERVIOUS to them!!! A parent should always model punishment to the child. Whereas my oldest is content staring at the wall in time out, thinking inwardly about what he’s going to say or do next, (or worse yet, he suddenly becomes horrified that we will ‘leave’ him there that Timeout has become the abuse itself) he can’t stand the idea of a spanking and responds wonderfully. The little one, however, is all about outside stimulation, talking and playing, and the timeout has maximum punishment potential. The swat on the bottom, eh… that doesn’t even phase him. On to the next breakable object or handful of throwable pebbles!
Bottom line, a spanking isn’t beating so long as it is done ‘correctly’. The child must know that a spanking is the punishment for specific acts, must be warned, and then the action should be carried through in a non-passionate but honest manner. When they are uncontrolled acts of anger and frustration, they become beatings.
I sure would like to go to the grocery store and tap the misbehaving behind from time to time without fear of being turned into CPA for trying to do what works for my children.
There just isn’t a black or white. There just isn’t, on anything. Get used to it.
If she were not famous .. this would be a non-issue. Its a picture.. no one knows what happened . To rip someone apart based on pics from a shady individual is nuts. I am a mother of three and have given my kids a boop on the butt . I love my kids but sometimes they act up in public and you get looks from people for not doing enough or for acting like crazy mommy when you yell . Its never easy cut her some slack .
please dont let violence be a way to treat a child, after all, all they have is you. It makes me ill to see these photos, i mean, what else had she done to these poor kids. They will be scarred for life from all of this!
Honestly we have lost our way. People that burn kids with lit cigaretts should be put to death, now if your smackin their ass because they were wrong that should be ok we live in a screwed up world that can’t seperate disapline from abuse. You can not correct a problem just discussing it. People “even children” need to know that they are responsible for there actions. If someone just looked at me when I was a child and said “that was wrong don’t do it again” I would be a mess. I thank my father for smackin my ass and making me the person I am today. No baggage no hate. Just a guy that knows better than to break the law. Maybe if all parents took the time to smack their kids ass when they make a mistake large enough to deserve it we could still watch bugs bunny cartoons. It is our own fault America stop blaming other things for our short commings
“You can not correct a problem just discussing it. ”
Really? You can’t solve problems by discussing them? You always need to resort to violence?
One slap on the ass to get a message across isn’t “violence”. Some kids really DO need that. Even Princess Diana resorted to a whack on the ass when the Princes misbehaved and she was a very good mother.